Dead motherboard - in need of monster upgrade to Audio PC

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware' started by redhead, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    Hey cats...looking for a little advice.

    I'm in need of upgrading my system because my motherboard fried. That board was 8 years old now so I'm ready to upgrade the system, but want to keep whatever I can....But being a Mac guy who has just been dabbling with PCs for some time I'm not up on all the changes.

    Does everything have to go?

    This is what my old system entailed...

    Case: Carbide Mid Tower - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055Q7BR4/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    MB: Gigabye GA-Z68XP-UD3 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054OWTQU/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Ram: 16GB DD3 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054OWTQU/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    CPU: i7-2700k - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005X64OA8/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Power: 500W EVGA - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H33SFJU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    So, I know the main thing is I'm going to have to dump the ram and move to DDR4. I need a new motherboard and I need to upgrade the CPU with one of the options discussed on another thread (7700k, 9700, Ryzen)

    I'm wondering if I can keep the tower, the power supply (1-yr old) and what sort of cooling system I need to install.

    I plan to have a few SSDs and maybe a couple big sample drives...external audio interface.

    The system is used to run Cubase/Pro-Tools and Vienna Ensemble Pro with lots of VIs.


    Am I on the right path here, guys? Help! (and thank you) ;)
     
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  3. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    Also, looking to go with 64GB RAM because of sample-based VIs....but don't know if RAM Speed is an issue of actual RAM speed, or Motherboard compatibility? lol
     
  4. r4e

    r4e Rock Star

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    You should take a look at ebay sometimes.
    I for example am looking for a core i7 9700k or an i9 9900k and now someone is selling a new motherboard including the i9,
    32gb ram and an all in one water cooling solution in a simple auction. By luck you could get something like that for the price of
    that cpu alone (~500€).

    The case you use looks like aregular ATX case so every atx compatible motherboard should work.

    With the psu I'm not sure. It depends on what kind of graphics card you want to use.
    For example if you take a core i7 9700k, several SATA disks, up to 4 RAM modules and lets say the cheap RTX 2060 Super
    (the super edition takes a bit less energy), you're almost at 480w of usage. A 500w psu could get in trouble if you then
    also add some usb powered things like an external audio solution... which in the end could fry up your psu.

    OK this calculation isn't that accurate as it only takes so much power when every piece of hardware is running at its full workload,
    like when you're playing games or loading up a lot of plugins and stuff but I would recommend at least 550 or 600w.
    If you don't give a damn about the graphics card, the 500w psu could work in your system.

    I suggest you to use a psu calculator like the one from be quiet:
    https://www.bequiet.com/psucalculator
    There you just add everything you want to include to your new system and it calculates, what you need.
     
  5. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    Cool. That's a good rec - I'll poke around on Ebay to see what I can find. Otherwise, it looks like the case is the only thing I can keep. haha Like I said, I guess this is going to be a monster upgrade. (And I was thinking only my power supply had gone on the fritz.) :/

    But, in the end, I know I'll have a much better system. I don't know much about cooling (when I built this system years ago I just followed a hackintosh build note for note) - is there anything I need to know about the compatibility of coolers or is that all pretty standardized.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  6. rhythmatist

    rhythmatist Audiosexual

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    Location:
    Chillicothe, Ohio, USA
    I have a creation station by sweetwater. pay the extra money. It's designed for what we do. Whisper fans, super audio and graphics, and it comes preset so All it will do is focus on music unless redirected. Two drives, one for files, one for software and apps. Mine has been working trouble free for 6 years. Get an SSD drive. 5 times faster.
     
  7. CMAudioz

    CMAudioz Newbie

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    You can certainly re-use your case and PSU, should be adequate for music production including all the drives you mention, it's only when you install high end graphics card that your PSU needs more juice! As for the rest, get new kit of course, 32GB should be sufficient in most cases and it's cheap now, try to get 2x16GB as most of the MoBo's come with 4 RAM slots, so in case you need more RAM later, you can add more.
    Go to https://pcpartpicker.com and pick the relevant parts which does a price comparison.

    For cooling, Noctua comes highly recommended, I have had them on various machines over the years, quiet, cool and reliable, which model you get depends on the CPU, although Noctua nh-d15 is the daddy, you need to ensure it'll fit your case. I wouldn't recommend you overclock your CPU or RAM, there really is no need to do it!
     
  8. DJK

    DJK Rock Star

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    dont need 64 gb ram, 32gb is more than enough.....
     
  9. saltwater

    saltwater Guest

    did you felt constrained by your system before ?
    because actually, the 2700k isn't that bad.

    you could just buy a motherboard, use the rest for ram/SSD's and call it a day

    i like the idea of buying used systems, unlike macs, PCs loose a lot of value the first years
    what you get for the money is almost always a no brainer and it will keep its value for some time
    in case your not satisfied with your purchase, usually you can resell it for the same price

    i would aim for an Intel, 7700k 32gb system

    next step would be i9 rig but i really doubt you can get that for 500 bucks :winker:
    a serious system in that range is around 2-3k (new)

    probably a good idea is to test your power supply on another old machine under load, or do you know exactly what caused this failure? looking at your list , its all quality components.
    kinda unusual that a board fries

    check your sockets, Power cables, is that all ok ?
    how much do you have connected to one outlet?
    is the cable thick enough? no burn signs in the holes?..etc
    you should connect your monitor Speakers separately if possible.

    or do you have many black outs where u live?
    then maybe you should invest in a UPS,
    preferably one with that sweet sinus juice our machines love so much :yes:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2019
  10. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    I loved my computer before...but you know things can build up over time. :/ I'm currently working on a demo project with a lot of orchestral scoring, so I'm worried I may be pushing the limits of processing and RAM soon enough (trying to work with a fairly large template of Kontakt Orchestral Libraries + several Omnispheres/other random VSTi's...) Since this thing went down several months ago I've been using my Huawei Matebook X Pro for programming and while its i7-8550u is pretty kickin compared to my old Macbook - it's got nowhere near the power I need for stacking sounds the way I'd like. :dunno:

    If you guys think I may be cool with 32GB RAM I'm down to give it a try! It'll save me a few hundred bucks - and I can always add it later if needed. Good call.

    And if I can save the PSU & Case...I'm just looking at a motherboard/cpu/ram combo...I could probably steal a couple other parts off the old build (DVD-R/W...+) .

    Do I even need a graphics card to run 1 or 2 4k monitors? NO Gaming...Just Audio and LIGHT video production (Youtube)... I think I had an EVGA GeForce GT 610 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00847TPH0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) in the old build. Could I port that over? (It says it uses DDR3 Graphics RAM....does it matter that the MB will use DDR4 now or is that a separate spec)?


    :thanks:
     
  11. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    Are you suggesting finding a used motherboard that is still compatible with my old processor and DDR3 RAM? That would certainly be the cheapest route - but I feel like this stuff is a good 6-7 years old...maybe I should just take the plunge, and trim where I can to save a buck or two.

    --

    About the motherboard frying....well.... the last thing I remember was asking my kids to go to the computer and plug in a keyboard to a USB port. They came back 10 mins later and said "it won't turn on."

    I'm assuming some plugs went in some holes they weren't supposed to....is that still the kinda thing that would fry a board? My grand assumption is this is what happened, so I'm hopeful that the PSU (which is by far the newest piece in the build) is fine.
     
  12. KidPix

    KidPix Kapellmeister

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    Hi,
    For reference http://www.scanproaudio.info/2019/0...00x-dawbench-tested-3-is-it-the-magic-number/
    [​IMG]

    AMD Ryzen 5 3600 https://pcpartpicker.com/list/PHmfKB
    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZjgysZ

    Intel Core i7-9700K https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Qk2Qjy
    Intel Core i9-9900K https://pcpartpicker.com/list/2BXmV6

    You can use your old GPU and may use the PSU if it is not damaged.
    Use Power Supply Calculator https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  13. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    This is an amazing graph. Thanks KidPix! One thing I'm noticing here is the MASSIVE increase in polyphony from the i7 to the i9 (whereas this seemed to be downplayed in other forum posts I was reading.) Man, that might change everything.

    Searching Amazon it looks like the difference from the i7 to an i9 chip could be as little as $80. :wink: That seems like a worthwhile upgrade if I plan to be pushing the limits on VIs.

    Another noob question - if I opt for the i9, does that change the story on any of the other parts? Or is everything that was going to work on the i7, going to work on the i9 as well.... (RAM/MB/etc)

    And if I keep my GeForce graphics card, can I get the processor WITHOUT onboard graphics?

    :shalom:
     
  14. saltwater

    saltwater Guest

    that matebook cpu has the same juice as your 2700k but the laptops gonna throttle and make a hell of noise

    you can keep your graphics card, it doesn't matter what type of memory it has. should run a 4k fine, 2 x 4k maybe...

    9900k has integrated gpu.
    the 9900kf is the same cpu but deactivated gpu.
    this are bad production samples Intel just made them available because of the sheer demand and shortage,
    despite disabled graphics it has the same price.

    the 9900k is the best option, but it demands a good cooler (noctua nh-d15 = 90 bucks),
    a stronger psu is probably advised but yours could work, the 610 doesn't need much energy


    i still would just replace your mainboard :) and get a used 9900k system in the future
     
  15. KidPix

    KidPix Kapellmeister

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    Hi,
    The i9-9900K requires a better cooler like the Noctua NH-D15, a PSU with enough juice and a motherboard with decent VRM.
    https://be.hardware.info/artikel/88...rd-is-echt-8-core-waardig#benchmarks-vrm-test
    You can get the processor witouth the GPU.
    https://pcpartpicker.com/list/xdcfsZ
     
  16. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    Thanks saltwater. The 9900kf I see on Amazon is actually $40 cheaper than the k now...Idk, I guess for $40 it'd be better just to have onboard gfx in case my card ever failed. :dunno:

    There is, however, a 65w version, for a bit cheaper. My understanding is the only downside to these is you can't overclock them. However, overclocking is something I've never even attempted due to my lack of understanding and fear of making my studio system unstable.

    Would you guys recommend this processor (save a few bucks, save some heat/energy) OR is the .4gHz base speed something I would notice... OR, should I really look into overclocking again. Is it something everyone is doing nowadays in a stable way?

    I'd love to get the most out of my system - but I definitely don't want to sacrifice stability for performance, especially after the performance gains I'll already be getting by going to an i9.

    Also - Everyone is recommending these Noctua coolers. They're just so ugly, hahaha... Are they that much better than, say, a beQuiet, or something? Obviously I'll take performance over looks...just checking. :rofl:
     
  17. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    And before someone chimes in to rail on me about worrying about $40 on a machine at this price range - at this point, this is really more about my education of processors and what I need in the real world than the small price difference.

    :thanks:
     
  18. KidPix

    KidPix Kapellmeister

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    It is up to you, in case the GPU fail you can use the onboard GPU, that is true.
    If the computer is just for audio the onboard GPU is fine, but for games/etc it is
    way better to have a dedicated GPU card, I never use the onboard GPU.
    For audio it is better to have all CPU cores at the same speed, small/medium overclocking will not be a
    problem, something like +- 4.8GHz is safe and won't overheat the CPU if you have the right cooler.
    https://www.tweaktown.com/guides/8812/gigabyte-z390-9th-gen-oc-guide-vrm-thermal-test/index.html

    Intel Performance Maximizer will do all for you, it will automatically test and overclock the CPU.
    Better CPUs will OC more, if your CPU is one of the good ones the OC can be 5GHz+


    Essential tweak performance for Windows 10
    https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...mate-performance-power-plan-windows-10-a.html
     
  19. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    Nice video comparison. Looks like they're about equal, all things considered. And the Dark Rock is about $15 cheaper on Amazon....guess ugly doesn't win every time! :thumbsup:

    You say it's better to have all cores at the same speed. I can't think of an instance where they wouldn't be - overclocking or not. Can you point to an example (of what not to do) when that would be the case? I don't follow...

    INTEL PERFORMANCE MAXIMIZER!!! Yes. Love it. This makes me feel totally comfortable as an OC Noob giving it a try. Looks like this program will do all the testing and setting for me and I just accept the results... And the $20 "insurance" policy is definitely worth it for someone who doesn't know what they're doing. Haha..

    Thanks Kidpix.
     
  20. saltwater

    saltwater Guest

    although the dark rock is really good, Noctua is the gold standard.
    the mounting system alone is reason enough to choose Noctua, super easy.

    its a lot bigger than the dark rock, you have to check first if ram and case allow it.

    in an ideal world, this is how its done:
     
  21. redhead

    redhead Noisemaker

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    Good video. Thanks. Again, they both seem pretty capable. But no need to tempt fate if everyone is recommending the Noctuas. Plus, those orange LEDs do help a bit with their visual! lol

    On another note, that beQuiet! case with the insulated panels is interesting. Especially being so easy to remove. I could see a scenario where I leave them on when recording something in the room - and pop them off (and reduce the temp 10 degrees!) when editing/etc. Cool.
     
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