DACs - You CAN'T hear the difference - PROVEN!

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware' started by AudioEnzyme, Apr 21, 2025 at 2:59 PM.

  1. Crinklebumps

    Crinklebumps Audiosexual

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  2. Dalmation

    Dalmation Producer

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    Reading any technical data-sheet for a DAC will reveal they are simply a binary latch, connected to a precise R-2R ladder. The top of the ladder is fed the reference voltage.

    The source binary for the steps of the ladder is varied in bit-resolution eg. 8,10,12 16,18,24,32...

    Gee... when I was 15yrs, I made myself an 8-bit DAC, to connect my Z80 computer to the analog world.
     
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  3. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    Between top one and ac'97? Ok.... Blind tests? Esi julia and rme? Can you hear difference?
     
  4. Somnambulist

    Somnambulist Rock Star

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    Hearing loss happens with age, no matter how well anyone takes care of their ears.

    I am not buying into how much better one person's ears are against another on this site, but there is definite proof that someone with full range hearing in youth is going to hear better than someone over 40 years of age.
    Providing a 20 year old is trained in frequencies, they might be better qualified to answer whether they can hear the difference.

    I know I can't which is why I am not entering into the debate.



    upload_2025-4-22_8-30-32.png
     
  5. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    No, everyone should hear any small difference, even behringer vs rme :D virus ti vs ostirus ahahahah
     
  6. Somnambulist

    Somnambulist Rock Star

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    I would agree if everyone had never been exposed to extremely loud music and had undamaged hearing. Not everyone has and I personally cannot hear above 9kHz anymore.
     
  7. Simplywavs

    Simplywavs Noisemaker

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    I know for sure i can hear the difference when i play music in my 4th gen ipod vs direct from my iphone. bit difference the overall feeling of the music is better.
     
  8. AudioEnzyme

    AudioEnzyme Platinum Record

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    Should be compassive and empathic as a calculator
     
  9. shinjiya

    shinjiya Platinum Record

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    The thing you are hearing is not the DAC, but the components around it. That's a prime example that people usually have no idea what a DAC does, even though they can always say what each letter means.
     
  10. Psychoacoustic

    Psychoacoustic Producer

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    Yes.
    I literally measured my own hearing when I was 20 (I'm now 40) and the difference is depressing. :(
     
  11. Simplywavs

    Simplywavs Noisemaker

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    the 4th/5th generations have the Wolfson DACs and the 6th have the Cirrus Logic DAC. Idk what you're talking about lol
     
  12. Haze

    Haze Platinum Record

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    Simply this...

    Not this...
     
  13. AudioEnzyme

    AudioEnzyme Platinum Record

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    Meanwhile there was a gathering in Illinois, US a few days ago.
    Supposedly the largest audiophiles' fair in North America called Axpona.
    Some highlights here

     
  14. Smeghead

    Smeghead Audiosexual

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    Hearing a difference is only the first part of the equation. The second part of the equation is hearing enough of a difference to give a sht about, let alone pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for.
     
  15. smallbutfine

    smallbutfine Newbie

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    What a topic, everyone has different opinions since decades.
    Ethan Winer generally has a scientific approach to things. And this is great. But sometimes he stumbles upon slight misunderstandings, as do his opponents.
    I 100% agree on his opinions on snake oil cables, that EQ does not 'add up' on groups of tracks in the mix (BUT nonlinearities in saturation DOES have a different effect if used on all tracks individually, one of those misunderstandings) etc. etc. etc.
    But guys over 70 are not supposed to hear finest differences anymore, esp. not in the high-end. Personally, I am heading to the 60 and still can hear over 15 kHz, but seriously, I could hear 24kHz with 20, which essentially is bat ears. Measured and documented. 'Lucky'? No, for mixing you don't need these high frequencies often. I know a mastering engineer who is over 80 and I would trust him nevertheless.
    So, depending on your monitoring / amp/speakers/active monitoring systems, you WILL hear differences, if you are able biologically. Especially, if a DAC is f'ed up in design, you will hear this, and you can measure a lot with a loop recording.
    Differences are small, though. Modern gear has really great DAC chips. The Sabre chips sound great. But, if done well, so can Burr Brown chips or AKMs.
    So, forget cheap soundcards, their interfaces are shabby and nowhere usable for anything semi-pro. You can buy a Behringer UMC 204 HD or the 8-ch variant, and use it's headphone out with a good to great headphone, and it is virtually indistiguishable from the latest and greatest expensive DAC's output. That was definitely proven in double blind tests. With musicians, producers, consumers. They were not able to to tell the differences between modern interfaces. But the Behringer models have the hottest headphone amp, and I really like it. Not as clean as others on paper, but you can turn it up as much as you need it, and in practise, at same volume, people can NOT hear the differences, and the devices have different DAC chips.
    So, what's the deal with DACs? I had Mytek stuff when they did still pro-audio interfaces, and it sounded really good. I also had some Burr-Brown DACs that sounded marvellous.
    But this is only usable, if you have really, really good monitoring. Otherwise you will not hear the difference.
    Being able to hear your product as good as you can is just a safety factor. Your monitoring should match a solid pro-level in quality, better than what your clients have. Otherwise you might not hear the one or other nastiness in your production.
    Klein/Hummel, now Neumann, always had the most boring and perfect but still affordable monitoring solutions.
    Nowadays, there are quite some competitors, that should be looked at.
    IF you have something like this ... you can try out another DAC. Todays DACs really are great, in the pro-audio range. And find what fits your wallet and needs.
    I would go first for a great monitoring, always. Top headphones, top amplification/speakers. Not esoteric, look what mid-range and low budget studios use, what is popular among them. Most of the time, there is a great price/performance favorite, if you watch the market for a few months.
     
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