^This.

Also to add it is relatively impossible to determine if a sample or vst used is illegal or not even through watermarks.

Why else do you think there are plenty of producers(Avicii for example) are using cracked vst's(like Sylenth1) and samples. He even said he gets alot of them from other producers. These are tracks that have millions of views and are played constantly and never get called out.

Not to mention if your famous enough or your song is famous/popular enough that someone is suing you over samples/vsts downloaded illegally your not going to jail as you don't go to jail for these things.

Your going to have to pay a fine which could be cut dramatically with the use of a good lawyer all of which you would be able to afford if you made enough money off your song, music, or live performance there of.

If someone wants to disagree with my point that's fine, but at the end of the day no ones ever gone to jail for copyright infringement(at least very few). Nor has there EVER been a lawsuit involving:

"illegally obtained music samples/vsts in the production of a song".

Why?

Cause they'll never know


However I will also add if your not independent(i am), and your on a label check with your contract and agree with them because you might end up in jail for violating your agreement alot of labels won't allow samples and shit so make sure you let them know you used samples, and pretend you just forgot where you keep the licenses on file and where you got them from lol

I also agree with this post as this is the ONLY way they would know to take action.

Trust no one.




/rant

 

There is absolutely now way anybody can know if the samples or plugins you are cracked or downloaded for free...im actually quite surprised software manufacturers and those who sell digital products are still trying to fight this. You simply cannot stop people from downloading your stuff, the internet is just way too big. They need to find alternative income streams and offer their potential real value rather than just selling their products. For example, if I were to sell a plugin I would give away free sample packs along with it, or combine forces with a producer who teaches a course on production to give away his course for free when you buy my plugin. There must be incentives and even then people will still downlpad the stuff for free.

I dont think you should worry about this at all..when you do become a superstar and make millions then go and buy all the software you used if it makes you feel better. Or do what I do and use only native plugins and a majority free sample packs to make your music.

 

Actually.. There's a big difference on samples and vst/synths.

Synths you can pretend that you made the patch or that you start it with xxx preset and alter it.. because its part of the synth. You would hardly get a complain from Massive/sylenth etc..


Samples are tricky. Specially samples that are unique such as voices, record instruments, and some others. You could get sue if the song becomes viral and you will probably be force to pay xxx Ammount of legal fees. Then again.. that's if your song becomes mainstream.

There's Samples that are sold for commercial use. Which give you 100% rights to use as you wish. This would have a hard time in sueing you. I would make sure to check the original website of samples you download to make sure, you won't get in trouble. Specially on a radio show.

http://www.whosampled.com/

 

Hi everyone,
my opinion about using illegal software is, that there is nothing wrong about it if you`re not making money with it. Most of my software is cracked and i don`t feel bad about it. But i noticed that i pay much more attention to software i bought for, so i now best how to use it and use it in most of my projects. For example i bought cubase and use it for most of my project even though i also have logic and like it. It`s just because i now better how to work about it.
So think about buying a few plugins or software you really like. It will help you better learning to use your software and its also fair to the companies you like to support them. Just my opinion

 

xHitoKiri - digital watermarking like what UMC were using (modulation around 15K or something) in vocal samples etc. could easily be proved to be pirated if they are used relatively dry .

but it probably isnt used because then people wouldn't buy the samples (not me anyway)

 

Not really... Because some of the prices are
rip offs...
That would be all. :D

 

I heard this before, but say if some sample library got distributed by a team like air or whatever, watermark will hint at the original buyer, but that buyer is not you. Furthermore the name of the buyer will get known to the publisher as the one whose copy is being distributed to everyone including yourself, so they will know you re using the pirated copy. Or am i missing something?

 

Well, unless the library is directly stolen from the publisher, someone has to buy it. The library is linked to this name - whether a real person or a fake credit card identity.


If my name is linked to a buy, I could always say someone stole it from my computer. So watermarking is pure scare tactics with no real consequences.

(Have you heard about the DVD screener watermarked with "Ellen DeGeneres"?

http://defamer.gawker.com/pirated-copy-of-ellen-degeneres-walter-mitty-screener-1498925907

So who cares?

 

As far as I'm concerned. Who can afford to pay £300-1000 for a piece of software (which might have incompatibility issues what not)without getting a good hands on demo at it! Ive been there before.. "Oh I see it, I want it, I have it, I hate it." (Happened to me for ProTools 10..I'm not getting into it..)Which is fine for smaller things.

But I think the cracked software serve as a good demo before actually getting to buy it!
And if it wasnt for those "demos" Developers out there now wouldn't have a huge chunk of my money.

Not everyone has insane amounts of money to risk buying non returnable products. So I think its right for people to "test" the products before buying.


That being said,
Any piece of work I have done which I have made money for, I use ONLY legit products.
I believe if you like and use the product, you really should buy it.

And from my experience the ones you buy, you just cant get enough of them. They feel so much more reliable and fun!
But i completely understand that not everyone can or would buy them before knowing if they work for them or not.

Private use = Yeah its fine to use non legit products. Just keep it to yourself if you do.
Commercial use = Either get plenty of good stories straight or just save up through time for your essential programs.


There is quite a nasty loop..

If you wanna be a paid composer. You need experience. To get that experience you need professional software. To get that software you need money. To get that money you need time.

You could spend years working (non musically) to save up for what you need. And lose out on years of experience due to it.

 

Very interest . Thank yu

 

Watermarks on audio samples...

There is a software Hex editor, so, it can find those "signs" and edit them, for example:

audio file has a sign "Vengeance" ( see another topic about it here), you change it replacing with a phrase kinda:

"hrena_vam_lysogo"

and it's done...

anybody wants to dispute?

PS. You can cheat on people, but you can't cheat on God!

 

Make money 1st, then there are plenty of attorneys that will help you sort it out for some of the money, once the sharks start to circle... lol

 

Here's a question:

Are there any documented cases of labels/developers suing anybody for copyright infringement or similar in respect to the topic at hand?

 

It is not always so cut-and-dry to use 100% legit samples in your productions and I have an easy solution.


SCENARIO #1:
You are creating some new tunes for a client... THE CLIENT gives you a USB stick filled with samples and asks you to add them to the production !

SCENARIO #2:
You listen to a track from an associate and ask about XYZ sound. They email you the samples they used.



SOLUTION:
I use one of the tools you can google called "BATCH FILE RENAMER"
simply add a BATCH PREFIX





Now all those UNPAID for samples can be inventoried and you can add source information to each file. That way even if you use a tune commercially MONTHS after you created it - you know what libraries you must immediately pay for !


NO NEED FOR A LAWYER - especially when many libraries cost far less than ONE TELEPHONE CONSULTATION TO A LAWYER !





2nd Question:
The countless libraries I have purchased from reputable online sources - HOW DO I PROVE I ACTUALLY PAID FOR THEM YEARS LATER? Transaction records do not show my purchases for items I purchased online in the year 2003 yet still use samples from today

There is a big grey area here....

 

Avicii used a cracked Sylenth1 from the Team VTX ;)
He showed it unintentionally during an interview. Watermarks...ect exists but it's very hard and complexe to "catch" you.
But dude, if you make money with the cracked stuffs that you use, you must buy em' it's a real shame if you don't. There are peoples who spends month/years of their life to create & develope some really good and powerful VSTs, and you make money with their work, they deserve at least a modicum of recognition... and we have to support em' that's all.

 

And it's tax deductible.

Why do you think successful musicians have well-equipped home studios? You either give your hard earned cash to the tax man, or you buy gear and claim it as expenses.

 

Last edited: Aug 14, 2015

You're not safe if you use samples, especially loop libraries. I compose for "a living" (I'm a starving composer with music all over the TV, all over the world and still have to work a part-time day job!). The unfortunate part of the music business today, is that the industry has been able to devalue the composer to the point that I have to give my tracks away and hope the royalties pay. No one pays advance money anymore. It's become a numbers game. The more music you give to the production houses, the more of your music they place into programming and the more you make. I had my biggest royalty checks this year but I'm not able to quit working a regular job!

With all that said, I am constantly providing licenses for the samples I'm using in my compositions. And I'm even talking about Kontakt libraries too. These people are asking more and more to provide the license and two libraries even wanted a proof of purchase!!
Absolute bullshit!! I told them to fuck off because they can't even pay money in advance so I can afford to purchase these things myself!! Yet... they will still come back to me and say... "the orchestral components sound MIDI". "The trumpet sounds synthy".
Yeah... no shit asshole. You think I can afford a REAL orchestra!!! But the trend is that these music libraries, music supervisors and music editors are all under pressure from their bosses to make sure there aren't any uncleared samples because they DO NOT want to end up in court...
So the moral of the story??
Use the stuff creatively... process the shit out of these samples. Cut them up and make them unrecognizable. Blend and layer them to masque the original sound(s). You know what happens when you do that?? You become a great sound designer!! ("great" in your own mind!)

The problem I see with a lot of you is that you don't have a solid musical education. You're relying on technology and the "over-the-counter" sounds. The problem there is that you all sound the same because you all use the same stuff and you are now devaluing the genres that you have only recently created!!! Genres are morphing on a weekly basis!!

All I can say is this:
If you cannot make music without a laptop (or computer), you're not a musician. If you need electricity to write a song? You're NOT a musician.
You will not succeed... nor will you last.

So it all is irrelevant anyway!!!!


- Quagmire

 

Last edited: Aug 15, 2015

A question to ask is...what 'crimes' do these companies pull off themselves? LOL

 

Wow what a topic!! I myself being a guy that released a lot of over the years , the one thing I can say that it's all bullshit. Unless some actually catches you using warez and busts you, however... If you do indeed make money from music then it is always a good idea to own what you use. Not too sure how many of you guys do make money through music or are just Hobbyist but I can say that owning is much better. I wrote a a lil thing a few years back and tried to sell it to be used in a local commercial but in the contract I had to list and prove that I owned what I had used so that the production company could not be sued. I could not do that then but I can now. And tbh it's a game changer. I now make money. not much but enough and I don't have to worry about my Rep. and Future work. Do I test stuff with warez?? Hell yeah!! But do I sell any music made with warez, Hell no!! I buy what I use. Would any of you guys drive to work in a stolen car???

 

Last edited: Aug 15, 2015