Convultion, impulse, what u know about from this ?

Discussion in 'Education' started by ryck, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. ryck

    ryck Kapellmeister

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    Hy guys
    I see and im experiment whit very impulse. Im try do it impulse liken" eq match " but dont work. The sound is like box.
    I try do it " irs " from my acoustic guitar. But its the same. The sound is like a box and irs take some armonics constant . And this is very bad sound.
    What all u know we can do it whit impulses?
    Realy, im found this very interesent .
     
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  3. Fudsey Plange

    Fudsey Plange Audiosexual

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. stefodis

    stefodis Kapellmeister

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    To "sample" an eq, i used to use Q-Clone & Q-captur (from Waves). It's a convolution Eq that let's you sample hardware through the plugin called Q-Captur, and then use the impulse that have been captured through Q-Clone (in short: Q-Captur sends a continuous series of short-frequency sweep impulses and samples the response of an hardware EQ, that gets sent through an internal port to the Q-Clone plug-in, which you hear).
    IMHO it's the easiest way to cature an impulse response for a harware.
    Oldy but goodie, when Waves was actually doing nteresting plugins.

    To be honest, it's not very relevant nowadays. We already have a ton of plugins simulating analog eq, and you won't gain more from convolution in term of sound : making an IR from a unit will leave out a number of the unit’s intrinsic properties, such as harmonic distortion, background noise and dynamic behaviour What you get is only a digital filter reproducing the exact frequency curve of an analog hardware, nothing more.
    But expirementing is always fun nonetheless!
     
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  5. ryck

    ryck Kapellmeister

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    very funny xd. My english is very sad
     
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  6. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Here's a good video explaining eq-matching:


    Si hablas español te pongo uno en español.

    Cool explanation but I'm pretty sure is trying to do eq-matching between his recordings and other guitar tracks. Meaning no hardware eq-sampling.
     
  7. Fudsey Plange

    Fudsey Plange Audiosexual

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    Hey, your English is good enough.
     
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  8. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    If it's EQ matching you're after, wouldn't Ozone's EQ matching feature be a good way to do this?
    I know, it's not an answer to sampling IR's... :unsure:
     
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  9. ryck

    ryck Kapellmeister

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    Si , como te diste cuenta? . Estoy probando hacer eq match de variad cosas . Como por ejemplo de un tipo de micrófono...Supongamos un neuman 87 ...tmb las patillas de bajo y guitarra y al parecer es diferente a un eq match. El problema es que suena a tarro. Por mas que tome un pequena propicion de muestra, sigue sonando a que estas dentro de una caja , es aparte del impulso , supongamos una acústica, guarda el " tono " o los armónicos. Es por eso que cuando intento hacer ese " eq match suena a tarro .
    En ña página de un man ( no me acuerdo el nombre ) . El que creo el vst analizer. El dijo que estaba trabajando en un vst de convulsión dinámica. Pero nunca actualizo.
    Algo fantástico me parecio por ejemplo lo que hizo bluecats con el re guitar de emular los picks up. Cosas asi ... por eso me parece intersante.

    Lo que había probado tmb. Era poner un expansor en el irs o sea la muestra tomada. Para que sea dinámico el impulso. Pero es poco convincente, al menos para mi.
     
  10. ryck

    ryck Kapellmeister

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    Thanks man!
     
  11. ryck

    ryck Kapellmeister

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    Yes the same like eq match. But whit impulses. I think this way can be better. But nobody work in that. ( i think) cause eq match take de curve from instrument. But i think impulse take a sample ( is diferente) maybe can emulate eq . Understand . Eq match = copy . Impulse ( maybe dinámic) can be emulate a instrument ...i dont sure...its a idea.
     
  12. Gyro Gearloose

    Gyro Gearloose Audiosexual

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    Yes, how did you realize? . I'm trying to match many things. As for example a type of microphone ... Suppose a neuman 87 ... tmb the bass and guitar pins and apparently is different from an eq match. The problem is that it sounds like a jar. As much as I take a small sample proposition, it still sounds that you are inside a box, it is apart from the impulse, suppose an acoustic, keep the "tone" or harmonics. That's why when I try to make that "eq match it sounds like a jar.
    On a man's page (I don't remember the name). The one that created the vst analyzer. He said he was working on a dynamic seizure vst. But I never update.
    Something fantastic seemed to me for example what bluecats did with the re guitar of emulating the picks up. Things like that ... that's why I find it interesting.

    What I had tried tmb. It was to put an expander on the irs or the sample taken. To make the momentum dynamic. But it's not convincing, at least for me.
    https://translate.google.com/#view=...o. Pero es poco convincente, al menos para mi.
     
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  13. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    I do use some impulses here and there for different things, eg. cabinet simulation, and acoustic guitar to emulate micing vs the piezo pickup, but these have always been prepared impulses, nothing I've sampled.
    I think impulses are different from eq matching in that they also affect dynamics to a degree.
    TBH, @ryck, I also had thought about this. Sampling a guitar from a pro recording that I liked, and applying the match to one of my guitar tracks. Either using impulses, or eq matching.
    It's a pipe dream, I'm afraid. I've found nothing works better than taking a great amp, and micing it with a '57 or a ribbon, and learning how to do proper eqing to get it to fit in the mix of the song you're working on. No shortcuts here I'm sorry to say.
    The next best thing is using amp simulators and cabinet simulators. These can get you close too if you don't have the equipment, time to learn, or space (too loud, bad room, etc.) to get good guitar tracks.
     
  14. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Lucky guess :)
    An impulse response is a sound file that represents the response of a sound effect but with limitations. To apply it you convolve it with the input signal.
    In practice with sound processing it's used for:
    1. Equalization: with any shape but digital. The one used for EQ matching. Very small files.
    2. Reverb. Longer files.

    The best plugins for doing EQ Matching are FabFilter Q 2+, iZotope Ozone Eq 5+ and MeldaProduction FreeForm EQ. I recommend MeldaProduction's because it can directly save the equalization as a wav file.

    The main use of EQ-matching IRs are cabinet's emulation, because they sound good enough. Cabinet IRs are literally EQ-matching of hardware cabinet plus the microphones used.

    Mira este antiguo pero gran video:


    In this one you see a comparison of Guitar VSTis. At the end the guy applies eq matching and you barely can tell the difference


    Si quieres te lo explico en español por PM, depende de como te manejes leyendo inglés. No importa en que idioma, cuesta un tiempo entender el concepto. Recuerda que para Eq-matching el IR simplemente representa una ecualización digital. Pero sirve como "preset universal" al poder guardarse como audio.

    Estos son más avanzados que un eq-matching, especialmente el dinámico, aunque lo incluyen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  15. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Yes, I have experimented with convolution a lot, have created my own IRs, etc. I know shitloads.
     
  16. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    My brother in arms! :wink::winker:

    @ryck , I forgot I made myself a half-assed videotut here
    https://audiosex.pro/threads/easiest-guitar-tone-eq-matching-ever.31744/

    Creo que estaba medio borracho, es mejor (y más fácil) el otro xDD
    Pero con este se pueden crear los impulsos en formato wav fácil. Ahora uso MeldaProduction FreeFormEq
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  17. ryck

    ryck Kapellmeister

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    Thanks xupito . I know how do it " eq match " whit these plugins. And better for me is " eq natch " from rx 7 . The copy sample is great. But im think this can do it better whit " impulses " but nobody still whit this projects impulses need much tools for work better.
    I try explain what i do it.
    Im take much part from a sample a micrphone. Then, whit a rx 7 im separate in bands / low, low'middle, middle,hight.
    Then im load in multiband convoloution from medal prodution and im put band for band work good . But the problem its. You must do it very short sample, and whit this happeng you lost frecuense.cause sample is long " 1 sec" the sound is like a box.
     
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  18. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Why do you use several bands?
    Explícamelo en español porque esto no lo sigo. Lo de grabar con el micro y separarlo en bandas.

    I don't understand yet what are you doing but your impulse(s) sounds bad because it contains a mix of equalization and reverb (the box-like thing).
    If the impulse is not very short it's not a correct eq-matching.

    Edited: if you try to emulate a real microphone or in general something you record with a real mic perhaps you can't use the easy eq-match technique. You should use the sine frequency swept technique. Calibration software uses this, like Sonarworks Reference and so on...
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  19. lancexx

    lancexx Member

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    Very interesting stuff, I'm still on the fence about eq matching but to be fair I gave up around 2015 after I stopped using Dynamic Spectrum Mapper haha:rofl:. I was hoping you could reccomend some interesting or unique sounding amp sims I could use for just the distortion (I have some solid cab irs I've collected). Not really looking for all in one stuff like bias or amplitube, more one off type vsts.
     
  20. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    That's another thing, IRs are only for cabs. But if you have a good amp-head, like any good ampsim with the cab disabled you can match any other sound that is more or less the same kind of tone. In that case you are making a Cab IR that matches the sound of other guitar-amp-cab chain.
    In the old video I posted I matched Helix Native tone with TSE X50 II default preset. Of course, you're only matching the EQ, other features of the amp-heads remain unchanged: dynamics, distortion, etc...

    There's a lot of good ampsims, many of them free especially if you only need the amp-head distortion. LePou's Legion is a beast for instance. Also, Emissary by Ignite amps. Both free.
     
  21. ryck

    ryck Kapellmeister

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    Te lo explicaré todo en español asi es mas fácil por el sentido.
    Lo que decis que un sample tiene un reverb, tonalidad, y otros fx, es cierto, y ese es el problema a la hora de emular.
    El rx de izotope , te permite tomar las frecuencias que quieras . Las que estab abajo son los graves y arriba los agudo...mas adelante te explicaré un " hack " que intente hacer con este metodo . De hecho lo uso para mezclar samples.
    Tambien con cc6( audition ) podes hacerlo de serparar en bandas. Con audition es mas presiso o podes usar un multiband pero que np este componiendo nada y luego separar .
    Agarras un sample digamos de un bajo.
    Lo separas en bandas , supongamos en 5. Bajas, medias , medias altas, agudas. ( podes ajustar este dependiendo de la emulación del instrumento) . Luego vas a tener 5 muestras o las que hayas separado y las pones en el convultion de medal producción en cada banda ( multiband convultion) si el grave lo cortaste del 0_80 hz . Lo pones en el primero y lo ajustas igual del 0 al 80 hz , despues por ej si la muestra era de un bajo yo divido mas en las partes bajas por ejemplo la segunda muestra del 80 hz a 120 hz , y asi . Entocnes despues con el gain reforzas o quitas lo q no quieras. Es una forma mas presisa y creativa ( pienso yo ) de emular.
    Mira , hice lo mismo con re guitar y funcionó m el problema es que re guitar la frecuencia es dinámica y los irs son estáticos.
    Si se pudiera conseguir que estas emulaciones fueran dinamicas, entocnes pienso yo que podría conseguir una emualcion mas fiel. Porque aparte de tener esa curva, tendría el tono del intrumento o el timbre, pero esa es la parte difícil.
    Lo otro que hize con rx fue esto
    Grabe mi bajo y grabe el mismo bajo con un emulador de bajos luego con rx le corte la parte de abajo ( los graves) y se los pegue a mi bajo. Claro que no es un sonido perfecto . Pero tiene mas puch y en la mezcla no se persive ese ensamble.
    Mañana si puedo subo muestras
     
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