Okay, would appreciate some opinions. I've been a long time flstudio/fruity user, since it was released really, but I'm getting to the point where a couple of fl's limitations are really hurting. First, as I finish up projects, everything is going to audio, and flstudio is shitting a brick due to audio being stored in ram. As I'm getting into the final critical stages of putting tracks together, flstudio starts choking bad, and honestly the frustration I experience is not healthy. Second, I like to make smaller edits in audio, and fl's playlist does not have sufficient resolution to make exacting cuts. I do love edison, and I'm quick as hell in it, but I like making edits right in the playlist/arrange page.

So, I'm looking for a more audio focused daw. I tried out cubase 5, and honestly, sadly, hated it. I mean I really really hated working in there. Fl's workflow is incredibly quick and easy, and is far advanced, imo, beyond cubase's archaic paradigms. No offense to the cubase users out there, I know you guys love your cubase. Coming from a very quick and flexible daw like flstudio... I just couldn't do it, knowing that just about everything I wanted to do is 2x easier in flstudio. Aside: I know learning a daw is tedious, and switching from an intimately known daw is even harder.

But I'm looking for a daw with an updated interface. I was attempting to demo Studio One, but have had screen draw problems. My thoughts are turning to Sonar X1. Does anyone have experience with Sonar? Honestly, in this day and age, I don't know any producers that use Sonar, and while I don't base my opinions on those of others, there is a certain intelligence in the herd.

I have a few specific questions:

How does Sonar X1 work with multiple monitors?

How does Sonar handle automation recording and editing. Can you draw curves in Sonar's automation, or are you limited to straight lines? Does Sonar use automation clips, or just continuous automation lanes? I LOVE fl studio's automation clips, they are extremely extensible, and make arranging (and rearranging!) pathetically easy. But I hate recording automation in flstudio, can't stand working with event data, and event data converted to automation data is nearly as useless with 10 billion control points. If anyone has a technique to reduce the number of control points, I'm all ears.

How cpu heavy is Sonar? I'm running a quad core 2.66ghz pre i intel system with max win xp ram... any problem for Sonar?

How is the midi editing in Sonar, how are the contextual tool tips?

How is the step sequencer in Sonar? How does it compare to flstudio's?

How is Sonar with Video?

How is Sonar with multiple takes and comping?

How is Sonar with Snap and quantization, any groove shuffle functionality?

How does Sonar manage vst fx and instruments? Can you create categories, so you don't have long scrolling lists?

And lastly, and most embarrassing, how "professional" is Sonar X1?

Anything else I'm not thinking of, but should be?

I would appreciated all opinions.

 

Why dont you download it and see for yourself?

 

You say you tried Cubase because of FL not handling the mixdown/mastering of your final audio stems. Whatever, Ill let that slide..... Anyway you're gonna use your ears more than the DAW at this stage so I don't understand your issues with Cubase at this stage of a track...?

I feel what you're saying about a new DAW being intimidating but you don't need to know Cubase inside out at this point. You'll be using 3rd party plugs you already know well (probably just reverb, EQ, compressor, limiter anyway). All thats left is twiddling some panning and volume knobs... the only time you'll really 'engage' with Cubase itself.

Finally, I know nothing about Sonar but a lot of people sing its praises. I know FL very well and am perfectly happy with it... except the bullshit slicing like you mentioned. It often slices semi-auto. You see the cut line as you do it and BOOM it cuts slightly to the left anyway

 

Thinking about it! Just really know absolutely nothing about Sonar, or Cakewalk the company. Doing some preliminary research.

 

I'd like a daw that I can go all the way with, from start to finish. I don't mix pure stems, my audio tends to still have fx and automation at the mixing stage.

I tend to cut by hand, and if you hold alt while cutting, it won't cut to zero crossings, which is handy, but you just cannot get close enough to see what you're doing in flstudio. Cubase's arrange page was awesome, you could get into sample level accuracy, which is totally awesome. Some of the stuff I did in cubase was tighter than fl because I could get really tight with it, align phases and transients and just totally control minute details with actual auditory benefit.

 

I zoom in to infinity and do the ALT while cutting. It still often auto-cuts slightly off where I 'tell' it to. Very annoying... I like glitchy chops for the majority of the stuff I do and its a daily struggle!

 

I am a Sonar user and honestly I do not like X1's interface.I stayed using 8.5 and I also use Reaper which has improved greatly over the years.I understand how important the UI can be and Reaper can be modded heavily to resemble FL Studio.As a matter of fact if you look in Reapers site under resources there is a plethora of user made UI's to choose from and you can even download several that you like and make your own using the elements you like from the ones you grab.If you are looking for an easy,entry level,lightweight DAW then Reaper is the clear winner.Both Sonar and Reaper handle video pretty well.In terms of plugin organization Sonar will categorize provided you create folders in your main VST folder and it will show the folders in your list to keep things clean and easy.Reaper however is a mess in regards to searching for VST's if you have alot as it lumps them all together regardless of subfolder creation.I suspect they will improve on this soon as they update it frequently.The Pro's outweigh the cons which is why I use Reaper.I suspect I will eventually throw Sonar to the curb as the MIDI editing improves with Reaper.The reason I stayed with Sonar is that their MIDI editing/Mastering is a bit better atm.As far as loop editing I couldn't say anything as I record audio and use MIDI.At the end of the day it will all come down to necessity and preference that will determine which you choose.

 

Over the years, I've tried Reaper as they update it. I think I last tried in v3. The track meter's didn't have db hash marks on them. I was like, what? and everyone was like, well you can go in and edit the gui. I'm not interested in creating fundamental graphics/functionality for my daw. So I don't know that reaper is right for me. It seems that is what reaper is about, and that does not appeal to me.

Not trying to be a negative nelly! I guess I'm kind of picky?

 

From experience, Sonar is not THE best choice for a DAW at all. I've used all of them. ABLETON LIVE IS THE WAY TO GO!!!! You can edit videos, master tracks extremely quick. Also if you get a plugin called Max for Live you can create your own effects. FL Studio is decent but its not strong enough to handle massive massive projects, like complextro or extremely dirty electro. Reason 5 is good, easy to make indie, rock, dubstep in it... Studio One 2 is pretty good as well. Pro Tools, I hate. Too much work and its not flexible. Get pro tools if your have a lot of time. Quality for it is Beast though. My advice is get Ableton Live 8.2.8 use Re-wire to load FL Studio or Reason 5 in it, then you have the perfect set! I know big dubstep and electronic artist do the exact same, and its what I do as well. Think about it! P.S. Leave Sonar alone, it can be pretty toilsome and it crashes on huge projects.

 

Re-Wiring Daws is a pain in the ass as well as CPU HOG Good luck mixing a complextro or whatever track like that.

also fl studio will load as a plugin.

I walked around the daw block a few times and I compose/program/edit/arrange in ableton. I record/mix/master in REAPER. *yes*

Ableton is the fastest way to get it out of your head, and Reaper is just a lean and mean routing beast. This is the fastest way to get things done for me.

*One of the members of this forum , One Reason, made a badassed theme for reaper that matches the theme he made for windowblinds as well as an ableton one too. My whole system is pimpin his themes

 

Sounds like what you want is 32/64 gigs of ram and a copy of sound forge to go with fruity loops imo.

 

Bitch, fuck all the bullshit and get Ableton. Start to finish, so easy to start, up to you to finish!
Reaper is waaayyy too much to get into your head, though once you get it in, you cant get it out. Just my HO.
Cubase is wayyy too late with the flow and function, and SONAR follows suite in many ways. They rely on the early 90's as how to put together a track, meanwhile things like time-stretching, frequency split effects, and smack dab audio editing have surpassed the fly-by-midi format. Hence, those DAWs will only slow you down.

Short n sweet Ableton FTW.

 

lol... just my "HO"

 

I am a staunch advocate for FL Studio.....easy as pie step sequencer and midi editing.... piano roll is still the CHAMP.

routing sucks...but it's never been a hindrance for me...my sessions RARELY go over 24 tracks ever...but I understand that I'm the exception not the norm in this regard.

 

As subGenre, Seckkksee and Hebrew in the rain says, Ableton is the way to go

I personally use Ableton and never had a problem.
By the way, I see FL to be complicated or whatever other word you can name it, I don't feel like we bond toghether as Ableton and I do... We are a happy couple LOOOL
But still waiting for the beta of bitwig, seems like a "shinyFXed Ableton"...

In short, give Ableton Live a try. You'll love it

 

Yeah, I've used Live. Live is amazing. FOR WHAT IT IS... a performance based app that had production features hammered into it... No flaming, not trying to start off a daw war. I've been through a few, and the people that really suffer are the children...

Appreciate all the tips. Wish I could hear from a few Sonar X1 users... but there seems that there aren't any. That has to tell you something?

 

Sonar X1 "I never liked that piece of Sh**, he probably got my friend Angel killed"

Yes don't know wtf Cakewalk was thinking with the complete change to X1 what a Joke.
This coming from someone who did like and use Sonar 8.5 I still do sometimes the Micro edition 20 megs lol

I mean at least add friken VCA groups, but as it stands it's not worth any money.

What is up with software Daw companies not putting VCA groups in their Daws? I see they are still trying to protect
the "shit thats only on consoles, if we add that stuff then they might get mad..FU!! lol"

 

Briefly browsed that vca thread... honestly the need for vca groups went over my head. If you need to ask, you'll never know. Someone said that the routing in fl was shitty, but I find it extremely easy, quick, AND flexible. Was just looking at sidechaining in live, and it seems like it is a unnecessarily complex. In fl, it is one click. In fl, I run sub-sub-sub groups on occasion and it takes a few seconds to set up...

Always thought cakewalk was kind of weak, no offense. Seems like a lot of hate from Sonar users for it. Honestly from watching a few vids, seemed straight forward enough. Like that they have a step sequencer that can be applied to anything, really pretty cool idea. Liked the investment in full on mixing fx in every mixer channel. I haven't demo'ed the software so can't say how they sound, but it is a great idea if it does sound good...

Would really like to try out Studio freaking One.