Collective Reverb on single track - how?

Discussion in 'Working with Sound' started by Andrew, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. shomyca

    shomyca Producer

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    Ah I see. You should have mentioned SM libraries earlier, it would be much clearer question.

    But everything said so far still stands. You are right, you need a lot of wet signal, but as I said, Altiverb’s placement thing, and “modelling” of the direct signal that you mentioned is not something you need at all. All that placement is doing is panning around source signal which you can do it yourself before send. As well as the EQ that is applied on direct signal via that direct/color knob in Altiverb, which btw is not giving the best results, you really don’t need that. Do your own EQ processing ( for SM brass, if you want depth, cut some low freqs).


    You can use send for altiverb by sending before fader and lowering DAW’s fader. If you lower the fader to infinity, basically it’s the same as if you put altiverb on insert 100%wet, there’s only wet signal, 0 dry. But I am not convinced that you should go 100% wet… that depends though. Also, you can indeed use separate Altiverb instances for ER and TAIL, as well as for different “depths” as No Avenger mentioned, but the same applies.


    It can work as an insert on a group track as well. SM Brass group for instance, and you use only one altiverb for all SM instruments. But again, you have to ditch Altiverb’s placement, and use your own panning.


    Also, watch Mike Verta’s Secret Weapons video (you can find it on the sister site), there is a fantastic trick for the SM brass. I already mentioned it, instrument placement by delaying one one side of the stereo delay plugin. You put stereo delay as an insert 100% wet (no feedback, modulation, or anything), and delay one side, in his case 50ms for a horn, but it is dependable. That way you perceive other side as a place where instrument’s coming from. It’s called “Haas effect”, and it is very handy for both stereo and mono sources. In this case, you get not just placement but a better room feeling as well, as the delayed side is perceived as the wall on the other side of an instrument. You can turn the gain of the delayed side up as well so to make that wall even more apparent.


    I guess you watched Sam’s from Samplecontrol (aka Headshot on vi control) video of SM brass with altiverb and B2. He also made that Star Wars Awakening fantastic re-score, and in one of the older videos he favoured Altiverb as an insert, but If he used it like that, it’s not on every instrument for sure but on the group tracks. Also, the “Dry signal must die!” video is 5 years old, and his fantastic SW re-score is recent, and I am not sure that he uses Altiverb as 100% for SM brass on that one, don’t think so. Also, in that re-score he uses Hollywood Brass as well, so don’t expect that sound out of SM brass alone. One more thing, that he him self mentined on vi control forum is ditching ER, coz it makes the instrument too fat for the orchestral setting. But I am not sure if he meant Altiverb's ER, or only B2's (he used both verbs on that re-score).

    In case I missed totally, and you never came across Sam and his work, here are the links:



    https://www.youtube.com/user/SampleControl

    His own words on the vi control forum, on the thread for this re-score (I copied it and saved it in my own list of interesting info…You can’t find the thread right now coz his account is banned and deleted coz he called Hans Zimmer (goes as rctec on vi control) a lier XD hahahaha):


    Headshot (altiverb + B2):

    "1- put the early reflection knob to 0, it makes the sound way too fat (for the orchestra context)

    2- use a convolution reverb and put it as far as possible (but not too wet)

    (this can be helpfull : http://www.parallax-audio.com/)

    3- decrease low medium frequencies - with EQ, try to get closer to an example of a real solo horn you like in orchestra context and use this example as a ultimate guidance -

    4- there is very usefull keywsitchs and controlers (see manual) –"
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
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  2. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro Staff Member

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    Thanks @shomyca, some very useful info there.
    Yes, I know that vid, from memory, he used Todd-AO IR (can't play YT videos on this machine). I tested that IR too, but found it unsuitable for anything other than SM Brass - it doesn't blend well with the rest of the orchestra.
    I started with Teldex and it works great.

    Could be interesting read on that HZ incident, maybe the thread is archived somewhere. :yes:
     
  3. shomyca

    shomyca Producer

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    Hehe yeah, the thread is probably there, but not the Headshot's posts haha... :rofl:

    Regarding the Todd-AO, indeed, it's not good for everything, certainly not good with wet samples...at least with it's own ER - without it, it's worth trying. But I would say it's great for all dry samples, it's just a fantastic room for orchestra. Although, maybe it's not what you are looking for, there are great IRs in Altiverb, but not all very clean.
     
  4. Frubbs

    Frubbs Ultrasonic

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    There's no doubt that there are some compromises made when sharing DSP-intensive resources like reverbs, as opposed to separate track-level instantiations for every element. The question is whether those compromises really matter enough to justify the extra processing, or the extra time spend fussing with them. Suppose you have an orchestral piece with a solo clarinet passage that's really exposed within the large space, where a less specifically localized verb tail may stand out - in this case, perhaps it's worth it. Most of the time however, that extra localization is pointless. Reverb is, after all an amorphous wash and millions of reflections off every available surface - by definition it generally tends to be fairly diffuse, and reverb panning can be seen as a more general setting. It's easy to get carried away with parameter control that doesn't necessarily do much for your track. That may not be the case for your mix Andrew but often it is, and I often have to slap my students down for wasting their time tweaking when they just need to get the effing job done.
     
  5. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    I recently started using this. Varying predelay using 1ft~1ms as the depth varies. I gotta say, this really opened my mixes up and made them much more interesting to listen to. It's amazing how subtle it is yet how much it changes your perception of the mix. My reverb buses had to be bounced though because I also add Gold at the end of the chain to provide that little extra bit of sparkle to the verbs. Once I started doing this, the reverbs just melt into the soundscape. But my old Phenom II can't handle so many concurrent instances of Gold on top of Altiverbs processing. Hence bouncing after I get that "layer" adjusted.
     
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