All I can say about Spain, is it's a wonderful place, and I was made to feel welcome in both Barcelona and Madrid, and whatever happens I hope the people don't change towards visitors, because I loved it there.

I couldn't agree more!

It's pretty much the same all over the country now!

 

Just imagine California saying they want to GTFO. That is 40 Million people almost 20% of GPD, because they don't want to pay for other states that do not produce and are unwilling to even toss in comparative pennies to the programs California thinks are important to the social welfare of the United States and California.

I have no dog in this race - just making a parallel to put things in perspective. I hope the Spaniards work it out, or some paradigm shift occurs that allows everyone to find a solution to the current situation.

 

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Last edited: Oct 5, 2017

I see no paralells here. Comparing a state a little over 150 years old with an area identified as far back as the 11th century; that has had to fight a war a against a fascist dictator who subsequently banned their language and tried to repress their national identity, is parochial to say the least. No offence to you personally.

 

I don't think Californian independence is ridiculous and I have debated that case before. There is a chance of it happening within 100 years.

In general Californians are much more "progressive" than much of the USA, they're mostly pro-Obamacare, gun laws etc. US politics in general has a conflicted relationship with social welfare.

I support self-determination (when there is a meaningful basis) and if this means Catalonian independence, then so be it.

 

I'm a catalan and non extremist in almost everything in life (with the remarkable exception of not being able to do music at all :P).

At least half of the Catalans who we have voted for independence in the last years we just want better tax balance. Not necessarily independence. But all the others attempts have failed, so we try this extremist measure. Also there are extreme circumstances of corruption on all sides. So we choose our corrupts over the Spanish ones. I doubt it will work but at the mid and long term nothing to lose.

Madrid is the capital and rules the taxes.
Vasque Country is the third biggest economic region and has a very privileged economic pact since the 80s better than any spanish region who is not the capital. This pact was a fast patch measure of the second democratic president in Spain, in times where the vasque terrorist group (ETA) was very powerful.
Catalonia is the first economic engine of Spain. Quite comparable to Madrid if we look at Barcelona. The balance of taxes given and received is the real problem since a very long time. And some competences. We must compensate what other "rich" regions don't give.

Those are facts.

I agree in part, because fair or unfair an unilateral referendum is illegal but the repression violence of the state forces were unnecessary.

Clowns and corrupts everywhere, Catalonia and rest of Spain.

You nailed it. At least that's how it should be.

At the end of the mess at least the half of us just want fair taxes. If we get that bye bye independence hello hello Spain.

Very well informed my friend.

Glad you enjoyed Barcelona and Madrid. None of them will change its attitude, because like the other user said, it's about the people.
Every Catalan / non catalan who spend a few days in Madrid / Catalonia quickly realizes the people is equally nice everywhere, with logical differences. Not better, not worse.

The hate is fed by the politicians on both sides. Very convenient so everybody talks about the hateful catalans/anti-catalans and not about the real problems of the country. It's not enough with soccer now, the corruption is too high.

 

Last edited: Oct 5, 2017

Dragging peaceful people down the stairs by their hair, kicking civilians and just acting like a hoodlum is a no go in my book.
I hope the violence stops there and Catalonia will be independent soon.
These ex colonial super powers are all on a power trip.