Can't Trust The Room Yet - Please Check The Master

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by Stevie Dude, May 23, 2024.

  1. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    Hi,

    I just moved to a new place few weeks ago and couldn't find time to treat the room and finally manage to do some basics and it sounds super weird. :suicide: LOL. So I just did a random low effort master, would like anyone to give feedback about is it too bright, too boomy, or too midrangey. Is there area where things poke out too much or the opposite. Stereo imaging, balance and all sort of thing, anything so I could do things accordingly. It was mastered with what I hear from the monitor in the room, plus some help from analyzer, reference songs and whatnot. It sounds pretty good in here :p but I know I can't trust this. Lol. Any sort of help is most welcomed. Thanks in advance.

    I don't know where I can upload the song because don't want copyright problem, it's just random track from Mastering The Mix free track or something.

    You can download the original track (from Mega link) and if you have time to spend, maybe show me how you'd do it. I think it will add value to the discussion but I'm just saying, if you could listen and give feedback is more than enough.

    PIXELDRAIN :
    MASTERED (-7LUFS) - > https://pixeldrain.com/u/t4zSNS8Q
    ORIGINAL MIX -> https://pixeldrain.com/u/jjE5AWVj

    MEGA :
    MASTERED (-7LUFS) -> https://mega.nz/file/9VoVBRCL#dFKEk1EY6lID-9Qx8_Mjp4yUYTllXTRAoVxrZrsDtFg
    ORIGINAL MIX - https://mega.nz/file/FNZw3BpD#2-8kYLEou909oZCRbpRL6IQxUxAJkfNPZO6BllBt9dE

    Here's the loudness matched version, the master is matched to the normalized mix at -16.7LUFS
    MASTERED MATCHED (-16.7LUFS) -> https://pixeldrain.com/u/NSoJjeZf
    ORIGINAL MIX NORMALIZED (-16.7LUFS) -> https://pixeldrain.com/u/M54e3oXv
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2024
    • Like Like x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  2.  
  3. Margaret

    Margaret Rock Star

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2023
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    300
    Location:
    Porn Star
    Try Pixeldrain. It's like Zippyshare equivalent. No registration needed.
    After clicking to someone link you can watch video or play music directly in your browser.

    Link:
    https://pixeldrain.com/
     
  4. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    Thanks. Added Pixeldrain Links.
     
  5. Amore_de_la_Vida

    Amore_de_la_Vida Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    322
    Had you the chance to access the separated stems, or to separate some elements yourself? Because IMHO these kind of song should deserve a real remixing, especially for the drums, who should deserve some separated dynamic / transient / saturation treatment...

    Considering this, in itself your master sounds good enough for me, nothing shocking nor unbalanced, I didn't found the basses muddy nor the highs harsh, mediums are OK...

    What is difficult, to make a perfect review of your master, is the incredible level difference between the original and your version. To really compare in good conditions, I think it could be better if the level of the two files would be perfectly aligned, my zero cents...

    What is the final level of your master ? Are you aligned to the standard -14 LU or have you gone higher?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  6. Amore_de_la_Vida

    Amore_de_la_Vida Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    322
    Hem... I don't think this product could makes your mixes better... Or enlarge your masters... Or makes you smarter...
     
  7. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    Ah, I should've level match for easy comparison. Will do that now.

    It's -7LUFS like usual. I don't do mastering, I always send mix at this loudness for client's version. The real mix is usually lower. Here's the loudness info for the track above :
    upload_2024-5-24_5-6-54.png
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  8. Amore_de_la_Vida

    Amore_de_la_Vida Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    322
    Thank you for the detailed info. Because I know that most streaming platforms have some special demands concerning levels. I'm not a real pro mixer, but personally, whatever I do or send to others I try to respect these limits of -14 and -1 db peak, because doing so you have a more exact idea of how your song will render on all these platforms.

    Remember that our ears are particularly sensitive to levels (even more than to frequencies), it can even be quite confusing, in other terms I'm not persuaded that breaking all the (level) rules will render your mix more attractive / sexy to your clients...

    ...But of course I can perfectly be wrong...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • List
  9. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    Yeah, the idea is -14LUFS but I don't think anybody follow that rule, not a single friend of mind sent mix out at that loudness. I used to send at -11 to -9 before but always got back saying not loud enough and my mastering engineer asked to stick to -8 to -7 starting this year because it's kinda the unspoken golden rule or something. Some client even wants it at -5 it depends. The mix always come back from mastering at the same level as the approved mix, sometimes louder because client wants it louder.

    Anyway about this, so you really sure about that ? I have a feeling at the end earlier that the master is kinda dark, not enough high end but it's already almost piercing here (because reflection), just few panels on the sides and back, my guts telling me not enough. Hard to believe that it's already balanced enough. It sounds weird tbh, the room.

    Not discrediting or anything. If you think it's balanced that fine. I'm collecting opinion so I can decide what to do with the room. Just double checking.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2024
  10. Amore_de_la_Vida

    Amore_de_la_Vida Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    322
    The fact is that I pretty like this kind of Rock/nu-metal style, and nothing surprised me, this kind of music is very low-frequencies oriented, the attacks of the drums - and the kick - are often (volontarily) darkened, this is the case here, this recording plays with our perception in the goal to have a maximum of impact, in other terms: you must feel the lows rocking your guts, else you can consider that your mix is not in the mood of the song.

    Sorry, I have difficulties to find the exact words in English (back from the hospital after one long year), but I think you're smart enough to interpret my gibberish...
     
  11. shinyzen

    shinyzen Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2023
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    227
    sounds good to me. monitoring in a decently treated room with my go to monitors. Maybe, maybe maybeeeeee. needs a little lo mid fullness, and ever so slightly less hi's. Im talking negligible difference here. 1db TOPS.

    more of a feeling thing. Sub energy is good. Full without being overbearing. Hi's are not too harsh, just feel like the top end could be ever so slightly tamer. low mids feel like they could just punch a tiny tiny bit more.

    honestly its good though. Every new room im in always sounds weird. takes a couple weeks to get used to
     
  12. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    Thanks. Needed this. I was thinking the master was darker, apparently it's brighter. It was piercing in here a bit, but the analyzer showing not enough high, I ended up following the analyzer. Problem when I cant trust the room. The low end is one that worrying me, I usually check it with headphones but I didn't just to see if the monitor capable of delivering it, it sounded okay in here, if you said it sounded okay in your room that gives me a bit of relief. Getting low end to sound right is expensive. How to get the low mid, because right now the low mid feels too much as it is even after I EQed it out. So it's sounding wrong here. Hmm something to think about the low mid builds up.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2024
  13. reticular

    reticular Kapellmeister

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2022
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    60
    Location:
    Croatia


    How do you compare your final master top end energy with this at 4:30?

    I´m on the opposite side, i dont think top end is harsh but i find guitars on the edge on loud parts, ofcorse in range of a 1.5 db tops, not much, if that helps anyway.
     
  14. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    Hi, thanks.

    I have my view on this but first just want to understand it accurately, would you mind putting it in simpler words ? are you saying the guitar on loud parts isn't bright enough ? 1.5db darker ? Did I understand that correctly ? need to confirm.

    As for now I agree, at 4:30 the guitar on the Tool's track is how I like it, which I believe has a lot to do with how the overall balance of the song is constructed. The Master I've made, the guitar brilliance/presence get nowhere close to it. I like the track (Tool's song) very much, love everything about it even my preference is more towards the 10000 days but nothing to do with the mix, just how it's a collection of f brilliant songs.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2024
  15. Ariel Gonzalez

    Ariel Gonzalez Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2020
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    215
    Location:
    Somewhere Out There
    look i'm using 'tuned' in ear monitors, so take my word like a grain of salt. with that being said i have a few things to say:

    - all around, it sounds good tbh
    - the backing vocal/second voice on the chorus gets very overlapped by the instruments, even to my liking
    - personally, i kinda like the perspectivized(?) mix, like put everything on a room as some kind of live performance... and i felt the mix lacked some of it. it is like a bunch of things got thrown there and you hoped for the best


    more or less in line with the disclaimer i put in the beginning, but even then i can say the mix is pretty good and it goes in line with what you said too
     
  16. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    874
    Location:
    Virginia
    Sounds fine. Someone already mentioned it might be a bit scooped in the middle, and distorts a bit here and there but I think -7LU and that's how kids like it nowadays. If the mix is the reference, it doesn't really suffer too much from being through post. The baseline could probably float -14 -12 with just a clean limiter.

    For the purpose intended it will do more than adequately.
     
  17. SAiNT

    SAiNT Creator Staff Member phonometrograph

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    1,587
    Location:
    ZiON
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  18. bravesounds

    bravesounds Kapellmeister

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    57
    I don't know which song was the reference, but to me it sounds less open compared to the standards of commercial albums. Maybe it's just my taste
     
  19. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    Thanks. I have felt some of the things you've said, I did add some EQ to snare, guitars and vocals to put it in different freq a bit as I thought everything were cramped at 3kHz for some reason from the mix, the snare was overly poke-y at that area too, so I did try to create some separation. I guess it wasn't enough. Also I have also added some "space" with DrMs (more like a bit of early reflections, but very little) because the mix lacks sense of room. I think they all can be heard if you compare the mix, probably that wasn't enough as well. I kept everything to a minimal level because there's only so much I can do since I didn't really mix it. Can you please suggest few tracks in the ballpark that has all those thing so I can compare and see how it sounds in this room.

    Thanks. I think the room has a lot of low mid build ups, the part that I said it sounded weird here is the master felt too phat and big and i tried to make it thinner, well I did make it thinner a bit from the original mix, but I figured it's how the monitor isn't really helping in that sense. I listened to it with headphones and in the car and yeah it felt a bit scooped. You have any suggestion for room with excessive low mid build up or the DSP correction is the only solution ?

    Also, yeah, -12 to -11 is what I am most comfortable with for this genre, but it just don't work these days and will always come back with client asking to make it louder. My ME friend said -7 is what I should stick to these days. So I adjusted everything in the chain to make it work like that. They always compare it to the CD version of their favourite songs, to be fair, back in the days when I know nothing about all this and just playing in a band, I kinda guilty for doing the same.

    Thanks Sir, much appreciated! :wink:

    Thanks. Can you suggest me some of the track that suit your taste, an album or a Spotify playlist. Few songs so I can listen here in this room to try to understand what you're trying to say. Open can mean a lot of things, I also understand "openness" differently which had to do with the compression works with the top end. If you could explain further will be much appreciated. Do the highs feel too dampened ? like, lack of air of anything like that ? In this room the monitoring at around 75SPL it already feel a bit piercing, but I can't really tell if it's really too much, already have few reflection panels installed but I feel like the treble isn't controlled enough.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2024
  20. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    1,995
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    @Barncore

    I'd would appreciate few minutes of your time sir :bow:. thanks in advance.
     
  21. eli91

    eli91 Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2023
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    34
    I'd say the song as a whole is nicely mastered and well-balanced. At least in my headphones the highs aren't piercing at all.

    That said: If I had to point out an issue, I find that the low-mids can get a bit overwhelming and thus mask the higher frequencies. I'd say the snare is a bit bloomy, so I tried a little 1-2 dB cut in the mid channel around the 200 Hz area and it cleaned both the lows and the highs and made the mix a little more lively.

    But I don't know if these are facts or just my personal taste :')
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Can't Trust Room Forum Date
Can't load Inst. made for player with library with 5.6.6 or 6 Samplers, Synthesizers May 29, 2024
Why can't I distinguish bit depth beyond 16-bit? I have excellent hearing... Mixing and Mastering May 27, 2024
Can't get Rock Warehouse expansion added to Superior Drummer 3 Software May 17, 2024
SSD 4 can't open library Software Apr 23, 2024
Seeking a song which can't be played on Spotify Music Apr 15, 2024
Loading...