That's an interesting point.
True I was mostly refering to material determinism in a world where materialism has never been front and center.
But the "mental" determinism is even stronger. To go in your direction that's something that Rockefeller son doesn't have a say on through the fortune of his father.
But the materials conditions of living will closely determine the kind of mental jail he will be locked in.
How he sees the world, people, society, politic. Being Rockfeller son he will see the world. By that I mean, he won't be a guy that's just aware of his immediate surrounding, the neighborhood. Nope. Even before his first travel abroad he will be in a strong awarness of how vast the world is. Do you know that superior classes all read national/international newspapers/blogs, etc, while labourious classes only local and regional news ? Do you know that some classes speak national political matters at home during diner time while others stricly talk about the weather and the latest reality tv hyped show ? A vast majority of superior classes members vote, a vast majority of lower classes abstain. Do you that you will be way more likely to go to a museum, a concert if you're a young member of upper classes then if you're not ? Its not just for material reasons. It's mental ones. From the youngest age, according to our environement, we interiorize a number of things regarding our cultural habbits, our intellectual ones, etc.
No one is mentaly free. You're structured - as much as me - by your knowledge your experiences, your education in the way you mentaly apprehend the world.
We are never a mental blank state, we are never free even in our thoughts. We can only think see and experiment through a grid that has been mercilessly carved through our life and our environnement.
That's one of the strongest disillusion man has, his freedom of will, the freedom of his thoughts, the originality of it. Ironically this is one of the typical mental jail some people, with specific social dispositions, are stucked in. Entire school of thoughts are built on that myth.
But it's boggus. Statistically it's been showed like 50 years ago by numerous researchers.
Check that out for instance :

in French :



In English :

Article going with it : https://mythsofourtime.wordpress.com/2014/02/01/cultural-taste-power-and-social-difference/


Edit : ultimately we lay under so much factors governing us that there is utopia in wanting to be aware of all of them, even more in thinking we can get a hold of them all.
But it should be the goal, and it's the only way out. I don't think one can truelly be free from all this weight. But being aware of it is probably the best way to mitigate the effects of domination.

 

Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

I'm very suspicious of ideas that imply the world is some sort of cognitive meritocracy--the poor and powerless are where they're supposed to be, and the wealthy and powerful are in their natural place--as well as the obsession with "intelligence" to the neglect of everything else that makes us human and is not easily quantifiable or investigable (at this stage of our understanding). Sometimes, I think "intelligence" is just code for "skills that are relevant to the marketplace"; and we all know that education is mostly about manners, waking up early, obedience, unformity, competition, etc...rather than actual knowledge.

As for conspiracies, dude, I really suspect that there's a conspiracy to get us to believe in conspiracies! Get on YouTube and sooner or later you'll run into something about the Federal Reserve, Bilderberg, Illuminati, Bankers, Egyptology, the Alt-Right, White Genocide, etc...I think Google's algorithms use conflict and outrage to get "maximum engagement" out of you (Jaron Lanier)

 

Ah the NWO.....
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/New_World_Order
Rational wiki is a great site if you are fed up of chemtrail nonsense and can put your own confimation bias [http://counterpoint.uk.com/the-psychology-of-conspiracy-theory/]to the side.
The whole NWO, anti vaccine, anti science crap is just a theory. and not a very good one. There is so much better quality information out there if you are willing to look.....

Here is a real conspiracy for you, from the uk perspective linking brexit, trump, bannon, putin, farage and a host of other malign actors. of which some of the process is being revealed especially by guardian newspaper journalist carole cadwalladr [through hard work and constant trolling by vested interests such as arron banks]
https://www.theguardian.com/news/series/cambridge-analytica-files
https://www.channel4.com/news/long-read-the-arron-banks-allegations
The mueller investigation in the US is also trying to unpick this.
Look up the gold elevator photo and research the interests of some of those um....people, just on wikipedia, nowhere weird. They are generally rich, powerful, connected bigots with vested interests in all the things that are harmful to humanity, before you pick random internet sites as your source of knowledge and decide they are going to put us in prison camps or whichever of the many daft NWO theories you want to believe.

It's a worldwide conspiracy which is being reported in the mainstream media, being investigated by government organisations and hardly anyone knows or cares because its easier to believe sensationalist nonsense than seek out complex facts that are difficult to understand from boring articles while the attention span is eroded daily. Don't give into it! be willing to change your mind if facts prove you wrong. be willing to be agnostic if you can't prove the aliens visited you.
Bad information is the corrupting thing. There is no absolute truth but some ideas are better models for reality than others

 

Now everyone has one of these:



And makes his/her own mindset with it and expresses it in a fraction of a second.

TV, Movie, etc. have lost their places and will come to the end in the near future.

Even this forum is in the danger list.

 

you will see how funny the future will be...

london is the finance deep state
washington is executive deep state
rom religious deep state...

its all checkable ....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Weishaupt

all these ultra rich men clubs und you still dont want blv the truth lol...all these laughable laws to destroy state and society...
all these things you dont want to kno....pizzagate,bohamian grove,warzones a sexslave supermarkt,check the darkweb,
check hoew much pharao like temples are in washington for millions and millions of money...
i could go on and on...so much lies but they never get to mind cause no knowledge in history...
abramovic hollywood partys...euro tunnel opening,
all this polarization...so obvoius...
left and right want the same but they cant get it cause lifetime brainwash...and dont come with ultra right this ultra left this...no..most ppl are not extremists..but it will all get extrem now...
we can have war for water in next decade ...in europe...but thats just conspiracy theory i gueess lfmao...all who scream conspiracy theory are lazy learners and readers thats it...and always not seeing the value in yt....a video from the ppl is much more reality than newspaper owned by who ....

case Marc Dutroux all witness murdered
case nsu process all wittnesses dead/murdered
etc. etc..
waether reporter jörg kachelmann talks bout the trails...short after acused of rape which couldnt stand befor court but reputation is fcked...
etc etc..

you will have a wake up...and that you think they would not bring war the planet never has seen before if ppl use dumb violence against elite is saying so much...you dont kno what sick war machine 2018 is...lol..and not how fckt up the humans nowadays are...middleages was nice...watch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raqqa_Is_Being_Slaughtered_Silently

what do you think how much bigger are the warmachines of the US;RUSSIA AND CHINA in compare to old wars...while the wohle udssr hand weapon aresenal is in circulation of civilwars

why there was an raise of thousends and thousends of handweapons in arab spring before all the civil wars had began

check donbass etc on yt
ukraine is killed for monsanto and fragging...but its all conspiracy theory lol..

nato papers talking from exchange of population for europe.......all conspiracy

obama admin did sell most weapons ever but ppl hold em as peace maker and leader of the free ..

and how they scamed all with trump as the anti elite fighter...ha ha

not seeing their agendas is ignorant cause they become so obvious in the meantime..

and sixnine rapper...why he wasnt acused with 18....
now he did something or he didnt want to do something they wanted and boom...

im no fan of micheal jackson but check his interview content on elite on alternative media

im out...

pls be open ...read all from far left to far right...and dont be dumb...flat earth and rep alliens are deflection...so stupid

and of course kennedy and the black leaders got not murdered by elite ...lol...same as african leaders


who shot the rocket on givi the commandant of global companys azz fckng donbass battalion
https://crimesofempire.com/2017/02/09/legendary-donbass-commander-givi-slain-in-donetsk/

now im out...

 

Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

Unpick this stuff more critically! yes there are lots of big bad men in secret clubs but they are just money addicts. they are dangerous but don't trust or like each other. Draw attention to them in your postings with details!
But come on.....pizzagate? https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pizzagate seriously? that is just some dumb alex jones type shit. ..You trust that guy? you can't just tie together random strands of unverifed, highly questionable information to make "truth". refuting pizzagate doesn't mean the clintons arent shady-its the job of politicians to aid the corporate empire at every stage.
Ukraine, monsanto, fracking, obama, plenty of true material there. why not raise awareness of the actual horrors of the world rather than tie it to Adam Weishaupt? He dead. Which illuminati https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Illuminati do you mean? Have you read Cosmic Trigger or the Illuminatus trilogy? I suspect that Robert Anton Wilson would be under deep suspicion in the conspiracy world...a shill is the usual word used to discredit those who actively don't believe in unprovable conspiracies
Listen to these Joe Rogan interviews with some people with some real crazy ideas with real world applications that have worked with governments http://jrecompanion.com/paul-stamets-jre-1035/
http://jrecompanion.com/elon-musk-joe-rogan-jre-1169/
http://jrecompanion.com/bruce-damer-jre-561/
It will take about eight hours.and then come back tell me all the powerful people in the world are on the same side and that i am also a shill.
Conspiracy theory is poison that stops us agreeing on verifiable facts.
For example, big pharma is happy to let the idea that vaccines are harmful spread. it costs money to research them and returns are small. its much better for them to sell drugs to people with illnesses that haven't been vaccinated against. #
People are more attracted to the idea that someone is poisoning us through an injection or chemtrail rather than that populations are sick because of air pollution, poor housing, bad food, the toxic chemicals we as consumers choose to spray all over ourselves and houses and everywhere....So yeah there probably IS a conspiracy to get us to believe in conspiracy theory and its probably targeted at you by russian bots through data harvested from facebook and youtube...........

#

Sorry, is this still the music forum? I am getting a bit off topic here but I believe we should all look at actual, visible corruption and conspiracy if we want to change anything and then make choices not to support those businesses or politicians or musicians or film makers or authors or newspapers with money, data or energy wherever possible.

 

alex jones have nothing to do with pizzagate...he brought it to attantion i guess...
you dont want to kno this shit you will never forget...today pizzagate yesterday dyncorp in balkanwar or swizz-basler tierkreis
they have wiped the net bout that..hard to find now..

cause without big picture no discussion is able...and they dont blv it...but these fcks did start it in wilhelmsbad and their is even a little pyramid where just a heart of a high baron was buried...noones knows more bout that...thats saying much.....
i couldnt blv these fcks are really into occult...but they are...nobody blvs...
but why there is a nephilim throne in romes underground church...and why is jesus looking angry and making baphomet handmoves..cause its not jesus..its the one painted on the wall..
unblvble but true...

it could be illus got overtaken by solomon heritage a long time ago

 

Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

Ha! managed to get back to music here by posting this that i just lifted from rational wiki:
Easter eggs in the media

Katy Perry has the Eye of Horus in her "Dark Horse" music video, which is obviously somehow related to the Illuminati. Gasp!
According to the theories, the Illuminati also have a "tendency" to put hidden symbols and clues to their existence around the world, and on money, for no apparent reason[note 3]. Nearly every popular culture icon, including television shows, politicians, musicians and any celebrity, are said to be somehow connected to the Illuminati in some way, from something as normal as a triangle[8] to a hand sign[9][note 4]. Maybe it's because they want you to know their evil plans, or maybe it's because they're bored at their broadcasting job[10].

Probably the best example of this would be Tupac Shakur, whose last album issued before his death, entitled The Don Killuminati: The Seven Day Theory, led to many theories.[note 5] The word "killuminati" (a portmanteau of the words "kill" and "Illuminati") is interpreted as Pac saying that he is speaking out against them and killing Illuminati, the truth being that he heard about them in prison and used logic — something the majority of these conspiracy nuts lack — to point out that: "If this organisation is so secret, how the fuck does everyone know about it?"[note 6] There is also the claim that Tupac faked his death and will be coming back (since 2003[note 7])[11]. This is mainly because, a while before he died, Tupac was planning on permanently changing his rap name to Makaveli after the 15-16th century writer Niccolò Machiavelli.

An equally good example would be rapper Jay-Z, who is supposedly very high in the Illuminati's hierarchy of celebrities. The hand gesture that he flashes has been cited as "proof" (in a very, very loose sense of the word) even though it's meant to represent the diamond of Roc-a-fella Records and is thrown up as frequently as the "East" or "West" hand signs. Some have compared it to that Temple of Astarte logo[12]. He is also accused of selling his soul, amongst other things[13]. As with Tupac, theorists just turn to bullshit to prove their points, interpreting that the name of his newborn daughter, Blue Ivy, backwards (Yvi Eulb) is Latin for "Lucifer's daughter," even though there is nothing to imply this[14]. Even the Church of Satan debunks this! [15] Jay Z has denied all these claims; his response to the conspiracy theorists can be heard in Rick Ross's song "Free Mason"[16].

It can be very difficult to find anyone who isn't actually connected with the Illuminati. All of the claimed affiliations involve an occult symbol in a music video or photo (usually the "all-seeing eye", the Star of David, or a Pentagram). This is most likely to get people talking and get publicity. For example, if Rihanna has a newspaper cutout that says "Princess of the Illuminati" in a music video, millions of people will go and watch the video. In fact, there are even whole websites like this that are dedicated to finding pop stars who are part of the Illuminati. Basically, everyone.

Michael Jackson is a very interesting case. One faction of the conspiracy community considers him a member of the Illuminati, employed to brainwash the public. Another faction, however, says that Jackson was not a member, but actually was fighting to expose their control of the music industry and media. Jackson was supposedly killed for this very reason. Either way, the theorists have all the bases covered.

Spelling Illuminati in reverse and entering it as an URL leads to the NSA website[17]. This is merely someone purchasing that domain and redirecting it to a government website as "inconclusive proof" even though anyone can do so.[note 8].

And, finally, there is the trend of blaming the Illuminati for the death of apparently anybody with any degree of fame. This is usually explained as the assassination of those who were just about to expose the conspiracy, or as one of the Illuminati's ritualistic, demonic "sacrifices"[18].

When so-called symbolism is refuted, the Conspiracy theorist usually says that the Illuminati "created" that refutation as a cover-up to make the symbolism less blatant[19].

 

yes and with no politix or religion rule
--------

 

Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

i read youre last post later...thx for conversation..

 

Yep but those are just consequences though. United or not if you have the global structure above that inherently generates catastrophic metastases, it's pretty much vain to just be aware of those, without attacking the illness, the cancer, creating them.
The problem aren't the "russian hackers" (waiting for proofs for that) but the network where they can elvove and take advantage of devices created for corporations to rely upon in order to get into people minds and get to their wallet. It's bad when manipulation is done for political purposes, acceptable for corporate ones ?
Big pharma ? Okay....Or tobacco, alcohol, industrial agriculture, industrial food, weapon industry....All of them widely kill more people (for profit, which in itself is an criminal ideology, fortunately not natural to humans) then all extremists united, yet they all exist, were given birth and prolifarated as flagships of a system.

I'm against the reform of a homicidal economical order albeit the most efficient so far for growth (for such a little number of people today).
This shit should go down. The sooner, the better.

 

Timing is everything!

 

I'd love to see the big pictures too but there's no such thing. The world is not under the control of anyone and anything can happen in any time by anyone. All we do now is making or confirming some predictions based on our own mindsets and expect it to take place but before that how do we know about the different sciences and have knowledge about the history, humans, etc in the greatest details. I'd say absolute zero.

 

sure not the antichrist....planet controlled by loobbys ...loobbys are controlled by skull and bones like groups...these university or college clubs...no native english over here as we kno sry

and these clubs are corrupted by bla...

sure the rothschilds dont control anything ...wtf ..are u serious...they control all....
forbes list is such joke...rothschilds have the half of all value on earth ...round 600 billions

rockefeller controls oil..oil control world....

some individual hidden aristocrates are ruling the planet...

go into community counsil...be there 3 years..and then compare with big time...i did...
its all corrupted or totall useless cause lazy and dumb cause no need to fight for living for life and all are in there a lifetime...its always old ppl in counsils nowaydays..

 

Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

If you don't think like me and paint a gloomy picture of the present and future in your mind, you can't enjoy your life.

 

agriculture science is total downcycle...EDIT its not even science...they dont kno what springtails are,same mykorhizal or trichoderma
pharma lobby is using ppl as test objeczs....
all conspiracy theory i kno ..

 

Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

the smilies are for the youngsters to demonstrade bla bla..they need i so i can pass coolness test
i hate ppl using it , me too most of the time...thats why i always make this one rofl:

 

future looks not good...like present
happy ignoring furthermore

 

No individual can know that much about anything. even polymaths have limited fields.
but if our collective knowledge amounts to even 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the universe its still quite big.
The human mind/brain is a vast space where things can and do change.....So i remain hopeful for some sort of infectious personal enlightenment virus that sweeps the globe and helps us see where we are going wrong [ayahuasca is getting very popular as a partial remedy for spiritual sickness...https://maps.org/articles/5408-the-ayahuasca-phenomenon...] Reading about psychedelics and people's experiences of them can really show us that we know very little about our own psychology even if you don't want to try them yourself.
its very likely that environmental disasters such as loss of biodiversity, plastic pollution, flood or drought [or related wars] will be the cause of our collective demise. Or an asteroid. I don't think anything I posted was overtly political {or religious?} just detailing corruption that exists within global culture..which includes pop music....thanks all for the conversation tho..

 

1- May I ask what's your "quality world" that these mother f.....s have precluded it from happening?

2- Could you assure me that if one day you'd have the power to implement your intended reforms and execute your plans, won't become another MF?