Calling all (live) guitarists

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by Prendergast, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. Prendergast

    Prendergast Ultrasonic

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    Hi, there!

    Been playing guitar lots of years, many bands and gigs.
    Then, few years ago, took a break for homerecording.
    Now i joined a band with friends, playing oldschool fusion jazz.

    Problem is, my old setup for hardrock, very minimalistic, won't
    do the job for fusion. Need a lot more FX.

    At first, i took a look at the Boss GT-1000 Core. Seems to fit.
    But i asked myself, it's basically a cpu, hosting software, and
    i already have a pretty new laptop lying around, that could do
    the same. Using stuff like Neurals Cory Amp live sounds really cool!

    So, i'm in need of some input from guys already using a laptop,
    or similar, in a live-gig-environment.

    Additionally to the laptop i need a smaller interface (maybe
    2 in/out, and midi for footswitch option) which comes with good
    drivers, cause latency can surely be a problem?!
    Also i got a decent DI to get into the interface and an additional
    amp at the same time (for safety).
    A good PA to go into is already there.

    So, what do you think would be the best path to go?
    Any experiences here (latency, reliability, how to switch patches, ...)?

    Would love to hear your opinions!

    Thx in advance!
     
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  3. metaller

    metaller Audiosexual

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    If you are fine with carrying your laptop around, you can make it work. Watch this video from Ola:


     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
  4. westfinch

    westfinch Producer

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    I stopped using guitars amps 5 yrs ago. I went to amp sims, but had to figure out a few things before I started the process in a live situation. I bought a Focusrite audio interface, just for guitar use, but use it for many other things. If I am playing with a band still using live amps, I play through a Powered Monitor. If I am playing with a band using "in ear monitors", it goes straight to the PA system.
    Latency hasn't been a problem, but you will have to adjust settings on your interface to your liking. The Neural DSP plugs are far above others I've tried. I find the Gojira to be an overall great plug. Great cleans, good tube breakup, good distortions for rock. Their SolDano is probably going to be my goto once I purchase it. My last 5 years of gigging have been a breeze. No amps to carry, no pedals. I probably played 600+ shows over those 5 yrs. I have a small Line 6 pedal which switches everything, and my vst host does a great job of handling fx, and song changes. The beauty is, less to carry, great sounds I would never achieve using a single amp, and countless fx. Others will probably disagree while they sit gigless in their room, but I could care less about them. I put the time and the experience into this, and it works great for me.
     
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  5. mr.personality

    mr.personality Producer

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    Curious as to what you think is an old school fusion sound. I'm old enough to have listened to that stuff (70's??) but can you name band/guitarist examples?
    I'm wondering what it is about your hard rock setup that would be inadequate. (dist./delay/reverb/chorus) As far as DI > interface goes, I got the IK Z-Tone pedal and that goes a long way to tame what I always hated about amp sims.... harshness, brittleness, tinniness.

    Suppose you'd also need an APC battery backup power. Depending on how big a deal your live gigs are, a redundant system of what you're using or a regular amp or hardware amp modeler to fall back on.

    Begs the question.... if going specifically for an 'old school' sound, that would be a virtually singular type of sound which wouldn't necessitate having the infinite sound pallet that's available today. Granted, good to have even if not used.

    Not dissing the use of, just curious
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  6. phumb-reh

    phumb-reh Audiosexual

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    I personally go for a hassle-free laptopless option, I can use my (prev gen) Zoom G1X in any situation and it's good enough for most tones. I can use my amp or the PA if needed.

    Have a look at MS-50G or the aforementioned G1.

    As for footswitches, it's hard to beat a Behringer FCB1010.
     
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  7. mr.personality

    mr.personality Producer

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    Bought that ages ago, and I mean ages. Took one look at the manual and right into the closet it went never to be used. Like many others I gather have done, lol. I'm a bit more savvy with midi controllers now, but then again they're all used in DAWS and don't need programming like the FCB does.
     
  8. Prendergast

    Prendergast Ultrasonic

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    No problem.

    The "oldschool" was for the music, not my sound.
    The music is more like Room 335, Phase Dance, even some Bruford-like stuff.
    And, yes, you guessed right, 70s/80s style.

    In short (soundwise): more Metheny/Holdsworth and less Angus Young.

    The Boss GT1000 sounded ok (not more), but would cost 600 €.
    I could afford that, but why should i, if i could do it more DIY-like, and save the money.
    Also, it would be much easier to carry a Laptop-Setup, instead of my Marshall-Stack.
    And it would be much more flexible and expandable for the future.
     
  9. RitchieM

    RitchieM Platinum Record

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    I just wouldn’t trust a lappy, I use Line 6 Helix, but any of the modern floor modellers will probably cut it, AND you not worrying about a windows update during your extended solo over vamped a Db7#9#14b4#1 chord
     
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  10. Prendergast

    Prendergast Ultrasonic

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    @westfinch

    That sounds interesting and encouraging.
    Would you mind telling me, what Line6 pedal you use,
    and how you connected (any extensive programming needed)?

    Oh, and what host do you use?
    Something special or one of the usual DAW?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  11. westfinch

    westfinch Producer

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    The best of all worlds would be the Neural DSP Quad Cortex Pedal, but good luck getting one. They are back ordered for over a year.
     
  12. Prendergast

    Prendergast Ultrasonic

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    Yep, i am also asking myself: can i trust this little machine while playing live?
    But i'm willing to give it a try.
    I've heard the Helix before, but was not so impressed ... maybe should try it again.

    As for updates: i proudly never update my windows, once it's running ok.

    And this Db7#9#14b4#1 i'd really like to see in a diagram :yes:
     
  13. mr.personality

    mr.personality Producer

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    I see, thanks. Metheny's in my top fave guitarists. Page, Blackmore, Metheny, Steve Morse
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  14. westfinch

    westfinch Producer

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    Hmmm. I've been using virtual instruments on a laptop since 2008. Never had a crash, but I've had Keyboard Workstations fail. As far as Line 6 pedal, is is also electronic with a chip running everything, kind of like......a laptop. Years ago, laptops were very unreliable. Not so much in this decade. You can disable updates....but who would put a laptop on the internet during a gig? Just like my DAW machine, my gigging laptop never goes online.
     
  15. RitchieM

    RitchieM Platinum Record

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    I would suggest looking at the Line 6 Helix range and seeing if you need the full Helix or the Lt. I go from guitar to wireless, into the Helix, then a line out straight into my bands PA. If you want an “amp” on stage, you could get an FRFR speaker for a few hundred $. I can’t speak about the Quad Cortex, but have been told the build quality isn’t the best, but again, most modern floor units will easily do what you need.
     
  16. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

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    have you checked Fender Mustang series amp, not the guitar, the amp ? I actually have one the old model, Mustang III, got it around USD200 long time ago. Good enough for me, it is cheap, the combos are LOUD af, unbelievably super lightweight with built in amp sim like you'd expect from a helix or boss stomp boxes (not as powerful, but quite good). If you are more of a Fender tone kinda guy, if you like hi-gain, stay away from this one. I have this model and check out the video, this dude using it live. The newer models is prettier and stylish IMO but still very cheap for amp sim+combo.

     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  17. RitchieM

    RitchieM Platinum Record

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    i have my DAW machine at home and have my workstation class laptop in work that I know inside and out, know a fair bit about keeping a machine stable, and I STILL wouldn’t trust one for live guitar use, I just wouldn’t. I look at ease of use, connectivity and the various potential points of failure. Leads can go, wireless can run out of batteries, but the rest is solid in my rig (more solid than my guitar playing anyway!), and it’s then just a case of playing. And if it’s about using the latest and greatest software, had the Helix for what, nearly 6 years, and they are STILL releasing updates, new models, more efficient algos etc…
     
  18. RitchieM

    RitchieM Platinum Record

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    I would visit a shop if you can and try a few different ones, but the presets on the Helix are notoriously shocking. I am a lover of Line 6 stuff, used it for years, but the presets I think always sound awful, but very easy to dial in your own. But honestly, I think most floor units are excellent these days.

    couldn’t help that, a little jazz humour :rofl:
     
  19. westfinch

    westfinch Producer

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    Hey, to each his own, right? Until you try the laptop, you will never know, and it will be your speculation, which is fine. No argument here.
    I used Line 6 many years ago, and still have the vst in my machine. Not real crazy about the interface, but that's just a personal thing. The Neural A.I. technology is far superior to the simulations, and it looks like TH-U and Amplitube are now going down that path. Hopefully Line 6 will jump on the wagon.
     
  20. Rock2112

    Rock2112 Newbie

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    I like to start from the eardrums of the audience, and work backward. Getting the sound in your head into the audience's head is the most important thing. The next most important thing is in-show simplicity. Starting with sound, I like tube amps - always have, always will. But I don't like cabs. So I use a Hughes & Kettner Grandmeister 40 Deluxe -- small but powerful head, and it goes into a racked Palmer speaker simulator -- then to the PA. All my effects (combination of racked fx and pedals) are controlled with two units -- TC Electronic G-System (which I use for its amazing chorus, delays and reverbs) and a Sound Scuplture Switchblade 8f. The latter is necessary because I run two signal paths -- one for mag pickups and one for the second piezo output of my Alex Lifeson Les Paul.

    The key is, all the planning and complexity is done behind the scenes, and when I play a show, all I need to worry about is the numbers 1-5 -- the preset banks for each song. Full tube sound, total control, and simplicity in the show. I drove myself crazy getting to this point, but now I am very happy with my setup.
     
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  21. Ŧยχøя

    Ŧยχøя Audiosexual

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    For a Live situation,
    and depending on the type of Gig and Music Style ofc..

    I'd go the other way around, and make it in the retro 90's-00's way.

    Clean combo Amp, anything..
    an old school Peavey, Randall, VHT, Kustom or whatever

    Old-school multi-fx,
    like a Boss GT 5-10, Boss ME-50/80, Vox Tonelab/Korg AX, Zoom G3, Digitech RP.. anything of that era, No Line6

    It might not do any of the modern amp/cab Simulation stuff,
    but it could offer you all the creative tools you might need on a live situation.. (except long looping)

    Plus, when you've got it all sorted, is a very straightforward/solid reliable kind of thing,
    no software problems and complications, no "sounds very convincing, but lacks realist playing Feel" problems..

    Just a straightforward thing, distortions will distort, cleans will clean, the amp is there 4 wire method..
    and that's what you've got to work with, infinitely less Options, but also less Problems.


    You will have one enemy tho: Dust
    Let the dust creep on those multi-fx buttons, and it's busted!

    I've had many multi-fx pedalboards die that way,
    to the point I have never taken out my actual L6 HD500 from its original film bag, lol
    and only use it through USB for recording, and with Amplitube Cabs..
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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