So C major is

CDEFGAB

But why its less common to write songs in

DEFGABC (again all white notes) D Dorian

Or

EFGABCAB (Again all white notes) E phrygian

FGABCDE (Again all white notes) F Lydian

I never hear anyone say this song is in D Dorian for example.....Its so much less common.......

why?

thanks!

 

Ah. So this is all since I mentioned scales and modes to you! Get on, mate! Nice one.
Oh dear, where to start.
You are talking about modes of scales here, you realise?
And this:

Yes. Relating to which main scale though ???

So much misunderstanding to unravel from your head here. I don't think I can do it...

 

so in D dorian, lets say i build a quick song with just 3 chords from this scale notes D E F G A B C

D minor
G major
A Minor
(repeating till end same pattern)

So isn't this a D dorian song?

Or its C major?


Also melody starts with note D.....and bass with D.....so that the D is enforced at start


I'm just trying to understand, if this is indeed D Dorian, why most songs are stated to be in either Major and Minor, and not Dorian etc

do songwriters avoid writing in other modes? why?

 

Although that can mean nothing regards the key of a song, you know that.
I am not the one to explain all this, sorry mate!
Nothing personal at all, but I haven't got the patience right now to unravel the misunderstandings to then be able to tell you what you need...

 

Find out where the tonic (tonal center) is. Focus on that and it will make more sense.
All modes have different feel, emotion, tension, color, character. Sometimes you don't want one over the other. There are major and minor modes. Just by changing the tonic one step up or down you can change the color of an entire song.

 

Provocative statement/opinion:
Modes are a waste of time & limit creativity & movement. Modes were pushed onto us thanks to money grabbing institutions like Berklee. Modes are great for making something more complicated if you like thinking about 7 things at the same time. But the same tonalities modes offer can be achieved with less than half the effort using methods people like Bird, Powell, Hank Jones & Monk used.

 

...or a particular section of a song. Or per chord, or...
Well done for putting something into a nutshell for him! Thank you.
I'm not a teacher. I just embody The Funk.
It's hard to jump back and reflect on oneself enough to externalise it in words sometimes. lol.

 

The simplest explanation of the modes is that you play a scale from a different starting note. In the C major scale, if you start the scale from the second note, D, you'll get D E F G A B C D, which is the D Dorian mode. If you start the scale from the third note, E, you'll get E F G A B C D E, which is the E Phrygian mode. Notice that in both of these examples I didn't deviate at all from the C major scale; all the notes used do belong in that scale. I just took a different starting point each time.

The other sites that mention the Dorian mode is C D Eb F G A Bb are trying to show you the differences between the C major scale (or Ionian mode) and the C Dorian mode. As mentioned above, the Dorian mode is a major scale, but with the second note as the starting point. So, the C Dorian mode would be in the Bb Major scale, in which scale we have Bb and Eb as the key signature; it all adds up.

Starting all the modes from C, will help understand what is different in each mode compared to the major scale. The C major scale is C D E F G A B C and the C Dorian mode is C D Eb F G A Bb C. So, you can see that in order to create a Dorian mode, you can simply take a major scale, flat the third and the seventh and there you have it! Similarly you can work for all the other modes.

In the major scale, both the I and the IV (Ionian and Lydian modes respectively) are maj7th chords. So, if you meet a maj7th chord, you'll have to try and realize what kind of scale you are playing in. To do this, you'll have to look at the previous and the next chords, as well as the melody.

It seems like you understand what the various modes so I’ll touch on another aspect of modes; colour. Each mode is associated with a specific type of chord. We’ll use C major just to make it easy to understand.

Modes
C Lydian: C D E F# G A B (major mode)
C Ionian: C D E F G A B (major mode since we can clearly see the CEG from C major in it).
C Mixolydian: C D E F G A Bb (major mode)
C Dorian: C D Eb F G A Bb (minor mode since we can see CEbG which makes up C minor).
C Aeolian: C D Eb F G Ab Bb (minor mode)
C Phrygian: C Db Eb F G Ab Bb (minor mode)
C Locrian: C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb (diminished mode)

This is the order of modes from brightest to darkest. The Lydian mode is has the signature #4, which makes it very bright. Each mode has a signature tone that makes it unique. Note, we can also extend each mode to be used with 7th chords.

C Lydian - C major 7
C Ionian - C major 7
C Mixolydian - C7
C Dorian - Cm7
C Aeolian - Cm7
C Phrygian - Cm7
C Locrian - Cm7b5 a.k.a C half-diminished

Modes & Chord Progressions
Let’s take a look at using modes in the context of a chord progression. Modes/scales go together with chords, which means that the notes of the scale or mode are found in the current chord that we’re playing. Our chord progression will be in the key of C and is as follows:



Since the first chord is major, we can use any of the major modes to solo over top of it: C Lydian or C Ionian. Note, using C Ionian will simply keep all of the notes in the scale of C major, but C Lydian will sound a bit more exotic due to the #4. Chord 2 is A minor, which means we’ll use any of the minor modes: A Dorian, A Phrygian or A Aeolian. Of course, A Aeolian is simply all of the notes from the scale of C major. I’ll skip chord 3, since it’s the same as chord 2, but with D as the root. Chord 4 is G7, which is a dominant 7th chord. For this chord, we’ll use the Mixolydian mode, which would be G Mixolydian. Please note, this is a simplistic view for using modes and scales with chords.

For instance, the last chord in the example was G7. We can use any scale that contains a G, B, D and F. Here are a few below:

1) Mixolydian: G A B C D E F G
2) Half-Whole Diminished Scale: G Ab A# B C# D E F G (notice how it contains G B D and F)
3) Altered Scale: G Ab A# B C# Eb F G (the 5th, D, is not commonly listed, but it’s a “hidden” tone of the scale)

respect to the creators

 

I searched and found,

Your thread is similar to this one:
https://audiosex.pro/threads/why-from-all-7-modes-major-and-minor-prevailed.55193/

This answer is the most proper one:
https://audiosex.pro/threads/why-from-all-7-modes-major-and-minor-prevailed.55193/page-2#post-497644