Bitwig 2 announced... And it sucks

Discussion in 'BitWig' started by kjfarrell, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    And what? One-Man-Army's Reaper fucks them all (bignames) at the same time, because of its extreme stability, fullest customization, cheapness/freewareness (fully working demo without limitations), everything can be under your hand and save a lot of time (and yeah, spectral editing as in RX will be soon in Reaper too, it is in progress), complicated features here are simplified and improved, and they Cockos work with their clients (users) instead of making marketing ways and forgetting about what their clients ask. Reaper is the DAW on the true way of development. Yea, almost all DAW are getting much better and better last years, but Reaper still has more pluses than minuses. Reaper is "I have a problem" - "Ok it is fixing now / fixed already". Instead of seeing "Cubase 9 Issues", "Ableton Live 16 crashing since Live 5", "Plugin delay compensation is new in FL12, but it is an old-beard-thing for Reaper", "Bitwig is still a betawig", "Studio One crashing because of I do nothing". And? How fast your problem solved? Whether it was solved?
    Sometimes I see "Reaper GUI is awful". Yeah, Reaper standard GUI is awful, but you can download any theme from their database of billions of GUIs made by people, musicians or designers. Reaper GUI is fully customizable as well. Want Cubase-like theme - download and click it. Want old vintage mixer - ok. Want Logic Pro X style - not a problem. Want Windows 93 style - go f-k yourself and you are happy with it. Want nanotech cyberpunk theme - yummy. Downloaded GUI theme, but buttons/toolbar/mixer/arrange window/plugin browser are not what you like? - Go further and change it more to better way, make your own workflow up to the end. Instead of "will next cubase update have better gui? or it will be worse?".
    See no reason to hate Reaper and love these overcomplicated problematic slow CPU-killing and expensive DAWs...Sadomaso? or what?
    Reaper is not a Mixcraft/n-Track/energyXT/MULab-like, which are still not cool for full production/mixing/mastering.
    Reaper is a level of ProTools, Cubase, Logic, Studio One, and it has its own advantages (a lot of them) and disadvantages (which a few of them, and which can be solved).
     
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  2. midi-man

    midi-man Audiosexual

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    Yes it does runs really fast on my PC.
     
  3. Jazz-N-Stuff

    Jazz-N-Stuff Platinum Record

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    NO ONE hates Reaper, we might get bored onh the "Reaper is always better" attitude.
    If i hand out a free Cubase 9 to all Reaper users , how many of them would stay with Reaper?
    i dont want to argue now and my apologies for hijacking this thread with my opinion,
    but pls just think abt it.
    And now lets focus on the Thread.:bow:
     
  4. xbitz

    xbitz Rock Star

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    Bitwig is more like an instrument (all the processes in the video, can't be reproduced or highly PITA things in Reaper)

    which is/are easy with Bitwig(clip system,macros,in-track routing,automation, modulation) is PITA in Reaper(and vice versa: comping-takes, multi-track recording etc. things are PITA in Bitwig), there is not too much common in them

    VS. check how multi-track recording can be emulated in BWS for ex.

    a big 'MEH

    they are so different :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  5. Cav Emp

    Cav Emp Audiosexual

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    But did you know it's only $60?
    Oh and you can customize its interface?
    And REAPER!
    And it has a fully functional demo (sure it's a moot point to anyone atually using it long term, but... REAPER!)
    Oh and it's stable and fast with VST5 support
    And it'll suck your toes to the rhythm of midi input?
    And REAPER!
    :suicide:

    Seeing as Reaper's demo makes it practically free, just about everyone who's seriously looking into DAWs should have tried it. And yet... so many people using other DAWs than Reaper. Crazy right?

    I wanted to like Reaper. When I gave up on Studio One, I gave it a good long demo before I bought Cubase. To me it felt like some important features were unfinished compared to their counterparts in other DAWs.

    Case in point, take comping. Someone told me it has since been upgraded a bit, but the comping was just awful. You'd have a number of lanes which you'd have to manually cut up at pre-determined places just to be able to add them to the comp. And no master lane... so the only way to have your comp in one place was to collapse the lanes, which means no editing the comp and picking from lanes at the same time. And god forbid you forget to cut all the lanes at the same place, or move the edge of a precision cut. Seemed to me as well that if you need to go back and re-do some of the comp you'll end up with an awful mess of small events since you are actually cutting the events instead of a more elegant system like S1 or Cubase where the takes stay intact and your cuts are just shown on the master lane.

    And I'm not trying to shit on Reaper. I'm just pointing out that these guys who sit and wait for a thread about any other DAW so they can start up again, peacocking about the benefits of Reaper... they're not telling the whole story. Yes it's fast and lightweight and stable, but to me the way certain things were implemented felt unfinished. Like it was there because people asked for it, but it was more of a compromise than a complete feature. Believe me, I would rather have spent $60 on Reaper than $300 on used Cubase if there was reasonable equity in that trade-off.*


    *as pertains to my needs and workflow
     
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  6. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    Well, I've been using Reaper since 2007 and I like it, but I get annoyed every time when I record something in mono, or want something in mono, that I can't have a pure mono audio track in a simple way. Such simple thing. Has been requested to death in the Reaper forums since years and fallen upon deaf ears. :sad:

    Elaboration: I like to mix "old school" way with many mono tracks going into a mono mixer which then turns the audio into stereo, like in ProTools. It's easier to mix that way, and it sounds better. In Reaper I have to click and click like mad to make every track I want mono, mono. Every plugin on the track has to be configured for mono, and all the sends and returns. That's a lot of clicks, I can tell you. So it is not impossible, but it takes a lot of precious time to do it. :sad:

    But I really like Reaper otherwise. The lack of this important feature [or rather making it easier to achieve] really annoys the hell out of me, but it's not a show-stopper. :wink: I keep telling myself "one day..." :wink:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  7. thantrax

    thantrax Audiosexual

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    2017.02.13

    Bitwig guys have sent me the BS 2 Beta download link via email (the key is in my profile
    page), finally. I'm a little bit curious.:grooves:

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Release Notes
    Thank you for downloading Bitwig Studio 2.0 Beta 2. This document lists the changes since previous versions of Bitwig Studio.

    Changes in Bitwig Studio 2.0 Beta 2
    Released on 10.02.2017.

    FIXED Differences in Transient Detection between 44,1 and 96khz files.
    FIXED Dragging time selection leaves stripped pattern in the note editor.
    FIXED Using a VST2 and a VST3 instance of the same plugin in one project results in version conflict message.
    FIXED Opening a project from the OS file explorer, does not open the project, but starts bitwig in the dashboard.
    FIXED Undo history might get broken in rare cases when quantizing notes.
    FIXED Update note editor layout (drum / piano roll) when instrument gets added/removed that provides note names.
    FIXED Arranger note editor layers are not filtered when navigating into a group track.
    FIXED Not possible to multi-select cue markers in arranger.
    FIXED Changing the ASIO buffer size has no effect until the engine is manually disconnected and reconnected.
    FIXED Crossfaded waveform sections are sometimes not painted correctly.
    FIXED Deep nesting of tracks groups freezes the application in the mixer view.
    FIXED Reverse, Scale 50% and 200% menu items are always disabled in Clip menu for launcher clip selection.
    FIXED Local solo didn't work when having multiple layer devices on the same track.
    FIXED Weird behaviour for de/re-activation for VSTs.
    FIXED Sampler Finetuning resets to wrong number.
    FIXED Transport clock restarts at 00:00 after one hour.
    FIXED HW CV Instrument range parameter not sufficient for my interface.
    FIXED Steps modulator doesn't work with touch.
    FIXED Creating a crossfade by dragging the fade-in handle to the left would sometimes not update the corresponding fade-out correctly.
    FIXED Modulation of mixer parameters in layers were only shown when audio was running through it.
    FIXED Track's note routing to vst does not save the channel.

    IMPROVED Make the project tab area larger.
    IMPROVED Add and Update remote controls for many devices.
    IMPROVED Better name for note editor clip layers when clips don't have a name.
    IMPROVED It is easy to accidentally save a default preset for a device instead of saving the preset because the menu names are similar and close to each other.
    IMPROVED Allow to hide cue markers in arranger like in version one.
    IMPROVED Realtime Bounce not working for Virus TI VST2.
    IMPROVED When using multiple monitors, raise the detail window when it gets the focus.
    IMPROVED Improved UX for Dashboard and Popup Dialogs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  8. MORTIX

    MORTIX Kapellmeister

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    Is the beta only for registered users? I`m curious.. any chance to share?
    Thanks!
     
  9. thantrax

    thantrax Audiosexual

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    I'm a legit user and the key is for me only.
    You have to wait for the one released to non legit users (on sister site).
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  10. MORTIX

    MORTIX Kapellmeister

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    Ok thanks.. I only wanted to try a demo.. i will wait for it in the official site..
     
  11. mesfigas

    mesfigas Noisemaker

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    my only problem with bitwig when i demo it was that a plugin called dekstop bias (Guitar Amp simulator) wasn't sounding good.
     
  12. VirtualMark

    VirtualMark Member

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    Unfortunately the Bitwig developers are a bunch of assholes. They regularly ban people from the forum for speaking out against Bitwig in any way at all, which is further compounded by forum members there who tend to attack anyone who speaks out against Bitwig. It doesn't matter if you've been around since 1.0, if you're not happy they will ignore you.

    I've emailed them several times asking about various things, half my emails got ignored. Asked on the forum, got ignored. They expect people to pay for a 12 month subscription yet won't say what features you're getting in the next few months. Plus bug fixes stop too when your 12 months runs out.

    Fuck those guys, I have a legit copy but will go back to a pirated one. They've lost me due to their arrogance and terrible attitude towards their supporters. They'd be nothing without us, don't they get that?

    Also, some of the features in 2.0 should have been in 1.0 but now we have to pay for basics like fades! Seriously, they put fades in the promotion video like it's a new state of the art feature. Welcome to the 1990s Bitwig, well done! Now add the rest of the shit it's missing in the next few months, and people may consider you to be a serious competitor.

    So disappointing, I was so hyped for Bitwig a few years back but it fails so badly in so many areas. Customer service, basic features, bugs, the list is endless.
     
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  13. VirtualMark

    VirtualMark Member

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    You're right, the online collaboration was promised for 2.0, along with a fully open modular system so that we could edit the built in synths and plugins, and build our own like Reaktor.

    However, they've ditched that, and instead we get fades in 2017. Fades... wow. A few other things, but fades and crossfades really should be a 1.0 feature.
     
  14. kjfarrell

    kjfarrell Platinum Record

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    I got the 2.0 beta today. Downloaded it thought to myself, $180 to have this. It was that moment I knew, Bitwig is fucked.
     
  15. madman jason

    madman jason Newbie

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    I have my key since yesterday, v2 looks more colorfull and i tried some of the midi effects which are quite nice, i also played a little with the modulators but while it all are nice gadgets i am thinking about for what kind of music i will use it, it is more gadget kind of stuff, not my direction to make a good track. I doubt i will update to v2. Does anyone know if it will cost the same if i wait 1 or 2 years with the upgrade?
     
  16. xbitz

    xbitz Rock Star

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    the new (mentioned in the news forum) HOFA SYSTEM 1 knows quite similar things in any DAW, so depends on your needs



    ps.

    also interesting
     
  17. Pipotron3000

    Pipotron3000 Audiosexual

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    Sometimes, we feel it before it happens...I'm sorry you spend this money.

    I was a little skeptical before Bitwig v1 was even out (months of teasing and finally very low level for v1.0). When i seen constant updates on v1, i was happy for BW users. But i was still reluctant to embrace their enthusiasm.
    And now, i'm back to my skepticism. To me, BW never really "started". Studio One, example, really "started" with v2.
    But Presonus is a bigger company.

    I always want all ppl to succeed, but i know not everyone win at the end.
    If they improve things A LOT like they done with v1, it is going to be more acceptable.
    Good luck to Bitwig company and users :wink:
     
  18. IfItAintBaroque

    IfItAintBaroque Noisemaker

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    To be 100% honest I haven't spent too much time with the Beta and I haven't updated to the Beta 2 yet so perhaps some things have changed.

    Disclaimer: If you are not already a Bitwig User this will make no sense.

    UPDATES

    As it stands right now (and I imagine things won't change too much between now and release) the only major technical update has been to the modulation scheme. It will take a bit of time getting used to but I think it's cool. The other updates are mostly aesthetic (the buzzword here being dynamic displays)... which is fine but does nothing for your sound.

    No updates to the FM-4 or Sampler...the updates on the Polysynth and Organ will allow you to get a few more interesting timbres but nothing major.

    Obviously they also added the very controversial groundbreaking FADES and track resizing.

    THOUGHTS

    BWS is a program whose strength, at the moment, is in running additional third party plugins into their flexible modulation scheme. That's all well and good unless you price yourself so high that most users can only realistically have one or the other. They really need to bulk up/improve their built in instruments and FX so that you don't need to pull to plugins as often (personal opinion). If BWS are going to put on their big business boys pants they need to look at the competition and the pricing. Assuming you bought BWS for $400 at release...4 years of updates is going to cost you $680...That's a $1000 on a program that's just introducing fades now.

    For me what I'm seeing in terms of "new features" at the moment does not justify $170. Just purely out of principle the fades and track resizing should be included in a BWS 1 update. Show a little good faith to your early adapters and supporters. On their site they do have an * saying the price can change at anytime without warning. Classic Bitwig business they'll trick a large number of people out of the gate and then probably have a sale or promotion when they don't hit their revenue goal.

    It's not about the $ for me rather the lack of transparency/customer treatment. I didn't know about their forum banning behavior but if it's true that' only furthers my lack of trust in them. How long have they been able to do the Fade thing? Probably for months (for all I know from the very beginning) and they've just been holding out on it for V2 to force a paid update on people. In my opinion that's just wrong but sadly the precedent has been set. They have the analytics about when people update. What's to stop them from holding back on a big release until X% of their users run out of their subscription. With their now dwindling reputation that's what I see happening. It's like buying a lottery ticket without knowing the odds of winning or prizes you'll win. Therefore I'll just wait until the features that I believe justify $170 are actually implemented. The one lesson we've all learned from this company is you can't trust what they promise...seeing is believing in this case.

    I like the software and I'll continue to use it but I'm not going to give them more $ after lying in the fashion they did and showing little care for their early supporters. They could go out of business in 6 months and you won't get your money back and you won't get any additional features.
     
  19. Cav Emp

    Cav Emp Audiosexual

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    Ah I'm just the opposite. Really bums me out that I can't record in mono in Cubase and change the insert signal path to stereo, have to move the content and plugins to a new track.

    In retrospect I came out of the gate way too hard in that comment. It was the culmination of all the people up in the Cubase thread using Reaper to bash Cubase like smarmy teacher's pets. I try to stay way the fuck away from DAW wars, just annoys me when I'm chatting with peeps who share an interest with me and some dudes just can't help but make their DAW about their ego.

    From what I know about the guys around AS, it seems to me that there's a strong correlation between loving Reaper and being very computer savvy. That's not me. That configurability is great if you've got the patience and the foresight for it. Cubase is in the Goldilocks range for me. Not too rigid, not so configurable it's intimidating.
     
  20. filtersweep

    filtersweep Platinum Record

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    it has some strong aspects, esp. modulation possibilities etc, but still no rewire support, that alone would justify it for me. still no flexibilty with interface issues ( i just do not understand why the dual screens have so much wasted space.. can anyone explain that? .. no rex support, again , personally that would be an attraction.
    i don't why it lacks so many basic features to me, using energy XT is better than this.
    anyway, good luck to the developers. i am not interest really. ableton is so much more powerful imho.
     
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