Thx, sounds helpful, ll take a read later on today.

 

Yea, that why its a must to invest in a pair of quality headphones if you are serious about music production.
Took me some time to make that jump as well, thinking it will be a minor upgrade, while in reality the upgrade was pretty big and much needed.

 

Actually it's the opposite - speakers are bigger liars because what arrives to your ear canal is a mixture of sound of reproduced recording and acoustic properties of the room. Headphones do eliminate the second variable.

That is very true

Not quite. This 'lobe' effect is highly dependant on "acoustic equalization" (see here) and number of ER and LR within the headphone shell.
In fact headphones tend to be much more precise for spatial positioning as channels don't mix together.
Also the author does not mention the importance of open/semi/closed back design, angled drivers or driver construction.

Monitors don't offer that either, but with proper engineering both HP and speakers can get very, very close to ATH model.
Speakers though will be always influenced by the room they're in and it takes lots of effort to eliminate all shell resonances.

IMO, it shouldn't matter on whether you mix on HP or monitors, just that the mixes should be always checked on both speakers and HP, and not just one or the other.

 

Last edited: Jan 25, 2018

would like to know which headphones you use? Thx for the advanced information you provided!

 

How would you compare the sony's to the others. I only have MDR - v6 and 7506. I totally love them.

 

I havent tried em yet, though they are some of the mostly used hp for studio and live, mainly for tracking, tv broadcasting studios and you can see them on many desks on live shows.

 

I see a lot of Sony's in videos and on desks. Please let me know how they compare.

 

This is what I have:
Beyerdynamic DT-250 250Ohm
AKG K240 DF
AKG K240 Monitor
AKG K601
VE Monk Plus

These I owned:

Koss Pro4AAT
Superlux HD-600
AKG K240 MK2
AKG K701
AKG K702
Sennheiser HD414

And these I had for a short time (up to a week):

Beyerdynamic DT-880 600Ohm
Beyerdynamic DT-990 600Ohm
Beyerdynamic T1
Sennheiser HD600
Sennheiser HD650
Sennheiser HD800
Sennheiser HD800S
Audeze LCD-2

Ultimately, Beyerdynamic DT-250 are the newest link in my chain, but they ascended the steps of prioritization much faster than any other before, and currently 98% of the time I am using DT-250 which I also cross tested with top-tier HP on the market, though even big players weren't able to match them for all the things they do right.
If I could pick just one HP, it'd be clearly DT-250

 

Damn, you are deep into it!!!
Please share your experience one day on mixing on headphones and most helpful tools one day (crossfeed simulator , virtual room simulator , correction plugins, amps & dacs.❤️
After your post, I would love to compare my cans to the dt-250. you had access to Sennheisser hd 800/s , which are in a premium price range , and you still would choose the dt-250, that cost a fraction amount than the sennies. Please speak on the qualities of the 250 as precise as possible
Superinteresting

 

The best what you can do is to keep it dry on headphones and always check the mix on any good speakers. Doesn't really have to be "monitor class", but this check is uber-important if you want to sound good on both HP and speakers.

While the sim does get pretty close and has its place, it's not a good substitute for a pair of good speakers. Larger drivers translate dynamics in a different way, there are crossovers to consider (separate mids, tweeters, subs), room gets in a way, etc. etc.

Bass tends to be the most problematic and difficult to evaluate. In that region, DT-250 does an excellent job by having it level with the rest of the spectrum, though getting the feel of how well it translates into a room is just as important.

Also consider this, while my experience with DT-250 is overwhelmingly positive, it's what it is - just my experience. @Von_Steyr , others and maybe even you would disagree once you audition them. I'll try to put up that list of comparisons.

 

Thank you,
i find it a bit difficult to mix the low end on my dt 880, but I’m not used to them yet, so most important is to know your Equipment.

But the dt-250 really ‚looks‘ interesting.

For every1 actually consider to check for a DT-250 , I found this thread in a random forum a second ago, seems to be a huge one, will read it soon, enjoy:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-beyerdynamic-dt250-thread.598201/

 

In fact, getting used to DT-250 was a matter of just a few minutes, after the big revelation of how other hp distorted the truth.
Which gets intriguing, considering I have worn HD-800S for a solid hour and couldn't figure out how that signature is supposed to be neutral.
K701 took several days to "settle" and even then it wasn't perfect fit.
K240 DF fared a bit better, just a few hours did the trick.

 

Just spent 2 hours doing my own high quality rca cables with klotz cable, wbt connectors and cardass solder ( for my headphone preamp) To all those people who say cables dont matter, boy you are wrong.
Was able to squeeze out about 5-10% more from my k712, more depth, width, better instrument separation. The difference is quite big.
Signal is also less harsh and less colored.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2018

Cables do matter but much less that you'd think.
Most of the time it's really just mind playing tricks on you (McGurk Effect). The only way to be sure is to verify it with switchbox, one side with the stock cable, the other with klotz. Have it setup by someone else so you don't know which polarity belongs to which side of the chain.
Even better, have someone else do the switching and listen for yourself.
Then listen for 10 different samples and make notes on what you'd think is the klotz side. Finally verify the results in reality.

Yes, cables can alter the sound signature, but only really crappy ones. Stock cable for K240DF increased crosstalk by whopping 20dB (which is easily measurable). Some do have high resistivity, which might cause low-impedance headphone driver to resonate (see 1/8 rule mentioned).
Van Damme, which is 1.5€/metre is excellent choice not only for headphones, but also for the rest of the studio. No reason IMO to get anything more expensive unless special application demands it (very thin cabling).

 

Last edited: Jan 26, 2018

@Andrew

Im glued to the hp daily, so i quickly notice any change in sound. My previous cables were certainly no name cheap ones with a bigger gauge, so this plays a role as well, including the better purer quality of copper in klotz.
Klotz is great value imo, same stuff as mogami just a lot cheaper. You can see klotz in many high end studios in Europe.

The signal just "breaths" easier. I also noticed that bass goes deeper, sub bass is more pronounced, which i noticed with the drum intro of Toto "I will remember".
Instrument separation is also a tad better and i can listen to music at louder volumes without getting harsh.

AKG balanced mini xlr cable is also on my list.

Yea, i would never empty my wallet for a cable.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2018

No matter how much you think you're exempt from the effect, it still does affect your perception (for better or worse), every member of Homo Sapiens Sapiens is affected just the same.
Human echoic memory starts to degrade just after 200ms, so if you won't do the switch in that timeframe, the results of your comparison might not be accurate.

 

Certainly that is a valid argument.
Right now listening to some tracks, great mixed records, Liquid Tension Experiment and Bruce Springsteen and at first i thought there is a static interference messing with my cable, yet i can pick up clicks on certain start of tracks that i literally have never heard in my life and im not looking for stuff or mistakes to hear, im actually casually browsing the net and listening to music. Had to go back a few times to make sure i was hearing right.
We are talking clinical hi resolution fidelity, im literally floored by this.

 

Found some namedropping in head-fi forum about dac/amp combo for DT 880, thought could be helpful for Some1 :

Despite being relatively unexpensive the Beyerdynamic DT880 is a world class headphone.
It's not that far from the very best in terms of performance, build quality and comfort.
High grade amplifiers and DACstend to be as expensive as headphones, sometimes even more.

You can drive DT880 (250 Ohm) with a FiiO E10K ($80) and you'll get very good sound quality.
If you get a Matrix HPA-2 ($320) it will sound a bit better.
Bifrost 4490/Asgard 2 ($700) a bit better.
Gungnir MB/Bryston BHA-1 ($3000) a bit better.

Quote:https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dac-amp-for-dt-770-880-250.813360/

 

Or you know, get Objective2 unassembled for ~$70 or assembled for $130 and get the best sound overall.

 

Last edited: Jan 28, 2018

Ah, i always wondered what this o2 would be, now I know, thx. I’m not able to build such a thing by myself, so would have to pay about 160 Euro plus, to get this. As I’m on low budget here (gotta feed the kids) I’ll maybe try a used Fiio Olympus 2 for about 50 Euros, and see if it an amp overall sound like, never listened to one before honestly. If it enhances the low end & overall clarity as promised, I could update someday to the o2, which really sounds interesting on paper.