"Ableton EQ8 causes a really phasey sound... source? 8 year old video showing Logic"

 

Look, trolling is all fun and games but did you really not hear any difference between the EQs in that video? That's hilarious bro. No offence but then you're on the wrong forum.
Really weird how some people can't hear really obvious differences but are very vocal about their opinions.

I don't really care if anyone believes me or not, or is too lazy to find out for themselves. This was not what the OG post was about. Don't care for this topic? Disagree? Move along.
Thanks for the recommendations By the way. I will demo some EQs.

 

Last edited: Dec 1, 2022

I tried that, doesnt change the sound much and adds additionally latency. I like to keep latency low for the production phase since I usually play in stuff live, so it does add up with too many EQs.

 

EQ8 should not create any non-linearities, so aliasing is most likely not the issue. I never perceived the phasing issues that our friend is talking about, but if it is indeed the case, it might be that he either uses too steep highpass filter (they tend to mess with phase) or some flaw in the EQ8 algorithm (which I doubt, since the filters were created by the guy who also coded the Glue and Drop plugins, very knowledgable guy).

 

the Pro Tools Stock EQ sounds way more transparent imo. But if you believe all EQs sound roughly the same, you can continue to mix and master with stock plugins. It seems some people, especially those who never tested it themselves and rely on math for mixing have a very strong opinion so I'm not even gonna say anything. Very strange thread to be honest. Got some good recomemndations though. Thanks for those who answered the question lol

 

Just because the curves look similar, doesn't mean the filters act the same.

You can not just "somewhat" match curves, showing on different displays and expect the eq's to act like those curves look.
One can see this especially on FIR filters in the bass range btw. As far as I know there is only one FIR vstplugin out there showing the real behavior of the filter curves and that is splineEQ. (Equalizer APO shows the real curves as well but it's not a vst)

Therefore an independent analyzer is a must for every eq test.

The test this guy presents is not even close to valid.

 

Last edited: Dec 1, 2022

Please define "transparent". EQ3 has decramped filters. Is this what you mean by "transparent"? Increasing the sample rate would be the cleanest way to get filters without cramping near niquist.

Again, not a single person in this thread has made such a statement. That would be wrong, because different EQs use different filters, implement these filters differently, use different windowing, and also decramping is implemented very differently depending on filter type, filter order, priorities, etc. This all affects the sound, for example through quantization noise, distortion, aliasing, leaking, trasient response, dc response, filter instability, etc. Yes, EQs do differ in sound, especially when you modulate their filters. But not by a "phasey sound". If your EQ sounds "phasey", the fault is most likely yours.

It is better to have a strong opinion that can be backed up by objective measurements, mathematical formulas, and physical laws than to have a strong opinion based on subjective auditory impressions, to present these as absolute truth, and to dismiss anyone who disagrees as ignorant, deaf, and incompetent. And you wonder why this thread has a weird vibe? Hmm... What might be the reason for that?

 

Last edited: Dec 1, 2022

everything went downhill after Sound Designer II v2.6's graphic equalizer on a IIfx with Audiomedia II and Sound Accelerator II.

 

Hey, Yea its the Orbit and i'm loving it! Indeed Antelope and Neve is a great sounding Combo! Thanks and all the best to you.

 

hahaha, Sorry but i have to disagree if you dont mind......... All EQ's will somehow affect the Phase Rotation/shifts, i do understand that you cant hear that but i can. And its not a issue unless the rotations starts to cancel out frequencies between the stereo channels...... But for sure you will disagree hahahaha. Anyway Cheers and all the best to you.

 

1. Pro tip: don't be such a d*ckhead on a forum filled with hackers and crackers.
2. your mcdsp eq is a zero latency EQ. EQ8 is a minimum phase EQ. These are similar but not the same, and as such will have differences.
3. You can make a living from music but still be a broke ass, just because some local nobodies paid you 50 bucks to mix their album, doesn't all of a sudden mean you know everything there is to know about audio engineering.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ENTER THE DIGITAL DOMAIN WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRADITIONAL ANALOG GEAR.

when you tell people to watch a 7 year old video, you're assuming that no advancements have been made in 7 years. Plus you linked a logic stock eq which is not the same algo as ableton stock eq, but hey I don't expect you to understand this because you're a paid pro.

btw Pro-Q3 has a little button at the bottom where you can switch between linear/min/natural phase and such.

And finally OF COURSE DIFFERENT EQ HAVE DIFFERENT SOUND, literally no one said they don't. What you are not comprehending is that digital EQ and Analog modeled EQ is not the same.

- You have digital EQs whose soul purpose is to be as transparent as can possibly be. That is how the algorithm has been programmed.
- You have digital EQs who model analog equipment, and analog equipment adds color because of the components used when making them. Even 2 of the exact same analog EQs could sound slightly different, depending on the parts used, where it was manufactured, Quality control, and just general wear of the components.

What you are talking about that you think no one else can hear, is the color of the EQ and not phase shift. You are literally saying that different EQs have different color and that's why they sound different, but you are referring to it as the phase. smh.

BTW your Mcdsp zero latency EQ actually has MORE phase than other styles of digital EQ, if you wanted no phase you would go with Linear Phase. But that introduces latency, which is why its basically impossible to track with these EQs and only really used in mastering. You will notice when you put a Linear Phase EQ (Like MAAT EQ ORANGE or even pro-q3 in linear mode) and then hit the playback button, it will literally take like 2-3 seconds before you hear what is playing back, because of all the latency intruced in order to minimize phase issues.

In Conclusion: You are incredibly rude for someone that doesn't know wtf they are talking about, and whether or not you get payed to do music doesn't equal your understanding of Audio Engineering. Some of the best guitar players in the world have not a clue what their gear is doing.

https://www.fabfilter.com/help/pro-q/using/processingmode
Here's a great article for you to read, although I can bet you won't read it but instead will just stick your chin up like their was a smear of sh*t on your neck, and continue to quack like a clueless duck.

EDIT: I apoligize for also being rude here, I just get triggered by this kind of stuff.

 

Last edited: Dec 17, 2022

Can you elaborate? Quick google not getting any fast info´s

 

Hahaha. Ehm.. Okaayyy?

I'm not quite sure what exactly you disagree with, but ok, I don't mind.

EQs are phase shifters. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. What you hear is the phase relationship between instruments or frequency ranges. This is not phasing. And phasing is what is primarily discussed here. All I say: EQs are not phasers and do not sound "phasey" unless you make the EQ a phaser by routing it in parallel and/or modulating the bands.

Haha...ha...ha? Disagree with what? I'm not even sure what you disagree with.

Ehm... yes. Likewise.

 

Last edited: Dec 18, 2022

you sound butthurt, are you ok? You can keep your fab filter commercials to yourself, no one worth his salt reads articles to determine if an EQ is good or not LOL

 

Holey sheet this dumpster fire is a topic.

 

For what it's worth, my current opinions with regards to EQ filters are:

- Bessel for gentlest rolloff and best preservation of phase.
- Butterworth or Linkwitz-Riley where Bessel is not steep enough.

Coincidence/critically damped filters might be even better, but I don't have any EQs using them.

Avoid: Chebyshev, Papoulis, Elliptic/Cauer and Legendre, too wobbly.

 

Last edited: Dec 19, 2022

Interesting, Chebyshev I'm familiar with (since it's fairly easy to grasp and implement in software) and yeah, it causes a metric fuckton of ripple in the response near the cutoff frequency. But it's effective for other non-EQ uses, like as a pre/post filter for a saturation etc.

But... now I'm curious, do you have any examples of the other wobbly filters in use? I'm not too clued up on them.

 

DMGAudio's EQuilibrium lets you pick from most of these filters.

bx_cleansweep (the pro version anyway) offers a bunch of options. UAD Cambridge EQ says it offers coincident, Bessel, Butterworth, and Elliptic.

I think 'out in the wild' most plugins use Butterworth and maybe sometimes Bessel. Or just the simplest generic biquad filter code.
The other filters I only really hear about when people talk about building speakers.

The filter wizard is pretty handy to get an overview of how Cheby, Butterworth and Bessel respond in phase, magnitude etc.