Best Guitar FX/Cab/Amp emulator

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by safran5020, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    That's awesome, didn't know he would do that! PM me what he charged you for that. I may ask if he'd do an Orange Thunderverb 50 if it's not too much.
    Course I'm micing now, but for that blended thing it may be just the ticket. And I've actually done that before if one of my mic'd tracks seemed thin (probably the recording engineers fault). Use the mic'd track for the energy, and the sim'd track for the meat and potatoes.
    I've looked hard for a Nebula preset for the Krank Texas Heat speakers (4x12 cab), but don't find it anywhere. I think the Igor cab in Kazrog's Recabinet is the best I can hope for ATM. That's a HUGE sounding guitar cabinet. I've resorted to using AE's V30 presets instead.

    @Riot7, this really appears to me to come down to a matter of personal opinion. I don't think you're going to be able to convince @MMJ2017 that there is no discernible difference in the end result of a track. I know I won't be convinced as I have witnessed the difference in my own tracks, and that's likely the most controlled test of this that there can be. I think I mirror the sentimentality of other people here in that we're after superior sound. The best we can manage in our perspective worlds with our equipment limitations. To some that will predicate the usage of amp sims and digital processing. To me that means using mic'd amps primarily and amp sims when they benefit the track. I think that's really the gist of discussions such as these, and there are threads upon threads where this very thing is discussed in great detail, and there are believers and non-believers in each and every thread. I don't think it's hard to wrap your head around the idea that everything you hear is incredibly subjective and people will weigh in with their opinions. But to expect someone to agree with your opinion that there is no discernible difference seems to me to be a very large unobtainable expectation.

    Long story short, seems best to agree to disagree...:mates:
    We can all still be friends at the end of the day that way.

    @MMJ2017, I for one, am enjoying your walls of text. There is good information to be gleaned from them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
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  2. Jaymz

    Jaymz Audiosexual

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    Completely Agree man i Can Tell the Difference in a Real Recorded guitar Vs an Amp Sim guitar recording on its on... in a mix its a bit harder to Tell if mixed right but a very well recorded Amp with a Mic is still the winner for me \m/ Analogue is an ever changing Electrical signal and Digital is 1's an 0's \m/ The Human Ear can Discern the Difference >>> i know i can >>> Theirs a Smoothness an Vibey Movement in that Mic recorded guitar that i have yet to hear in the digital Realm \m/ That Space between the Speaker and Mic is missing in Impulses an so far for me Nebula is closest to capturing that movement \m/
     
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  3. Torrao

    Torrao Platinum Record

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    It seems to me that nothing has changed since I started using Line6 stuff back in 00's. Real amp guys vs modelling guys fighting fiercely (on the net, of course). The funny thing is that modelling guys always said "in a few years the gap between analog and digital will be defeated... Well, it's been 17 years already since the release of Line6 POD, and I have yet to play a digital modeller that sounds and feels like a real amp.

    I enjoy ampsims for home jamming. No issues with the neighbours, and they sound just fine through monitors or headphones. Live? Don't even ask.

    The only one I'm really curious to try is the Kemper. It is a different technology and I can't say first hand how close they can get to the real thing, but I assure you this video sounds spot on to the real thing (to the point that it autoplayed on youtube and I instantly recognized the amp without even watching the video).

     
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  4. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    @Torrao, yeah, I don't really understand the fighting about the two. When the thread started going that direction, I was like "great, here we go again!"
    I'll still chime in my experiences in threads like these, though, because I feel that even though my experience is personal to my situation, it might spark someone to try a different approach which ends up helping them out in the long run. For me it's all about the spirit of helping others.
    I tried jamming with an simulated chain in my DAW, and the latency was so bad (older slower 3.2GHz AMD Phenom II) that I couldn't enjoy it. Jamming at home, I usually plug into my old trusty Roland GP-100. Absolutely no latency there!
     
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  5. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    I see that this is your point of view, i accept that it is. i respect that it is that way, i just have a little bit of a different one friend.
     
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  6. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Yeah, it's one of these war guaranteed topics. IMHO the facts are the following:
    - no amp sim can match the tone of a real amp without a lot of latency at least. it's too CPU expensive
    - amp sims thought can do very nice tones, specially in a mix
    - hardware amp sims (Fractal and specially Kemper) can get very close because dedicated hardware chips are a lot faster than software. It's like comparing real-time video encoding with your home computer and a professional digital camera. Or a GPU with a CPU doing 3D games.
     
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  7. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    that's where you are 100% wrong. No one is arguing sims are better that the real thing.

    Who was the one 'fiercely' ridiculing me when I took the time to post a simple Helix remedy?
    Since some of us asked you to upload clips your posts now show some restraint, but the fact that guys like you with e-courage who freely post things you would never dare utter face to face is what ruins a good discussion.
     
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  8. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    Haha, I'm appropriating this word!
     
  9. Absolutely positively.
    In about 1987 I found this Dean Markley amp at the Canal Street Flea Market that just sounded amazing and different than everything else out there, and it was important for me at the time (and still a bit to this day) not to use what others were using and to have my sound unique to both myself as well as in the context of playing and jamming with others. It has a 12ax7 in the preamp and a solid state power amp, but what made it really sound amazing was the speaker, a 12inch Black Widow that is a rather flat sounding thing that doesn't break up like what is in pretty much all guitar cabs, the same that tons of peddle steel players in Nashville used to use in their rigs. Back in the day when there were two guitarists in a band one was the "lead guitarist" and the other the "rhythm guitatist". I got off on and totally loved being the guy that tied together the lead player with the rhythm section, the one that would create the little things that guided the band in the feeling of the song, kind of like the conductor with a baton pulling out the emotion of the players. Anyway, this 80 watt amp was just killer, but one day as I flipped the power switch I smelled smoke and it wouldn't pass sound. Bummed, I took it to this place in Midtown that I heard specialized in Dean Markley amps and supposedly did an emergency repair on an Andy Summers Dean Markley Signature amp when they were in NYC touring, so I felt that this was the best and really the only place to take it. When I got there I saw a shit load of these amps and felt good about bringing it there, but when I came back pick it up a few weeks later (felt like a million years without it) what the dude handed me wasn't the same amp, I knew right away as the straight line burn on the top left side from one of my stupid cigarettes was missing. I tried reasoning with the guy explaining that it didn't have the same speaker, etc, and we almost, almost came to blows when he said that it didn't matter, but two other guys came out front from the yelling, so I cut my losses, I walked out of the shop with this new stranger, this 40 pound dead weight counterfeit. When I got back to my apartment and I plugged in the Tele it wasn't even close. The sparkle and the life were all gone from it's blank staring eyes. I had never cracked open the amp but I bet that there was even a different tube in the preamp, probably the stock that it came with along with the stock Magnum speaker which is what was now in place of my Black Widow. I finally replaced the speaker with a new Black Widow but the amp was never the muse that it once was for me. I realized then that speakers are super important and hold great sway over how the final sound is after it's journey through the amplifier. A sad, sad story but one that illustrates your statement to a T.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    @superliquidsunshine, that reminds me of how much a Marshall 1960B changed the sound of my JCM 800 50 Watt head after using it with a Sunn cabinet at first.
    I made the mistake of borrowing a friends cabinet, and afterwards I couldn't stand to hear my beloved Marshall through that Sunn cabinet anymore. So I ended up scoring my own Marshall Cab from who remembers where.
    Still kept the Sunn cab though because we only acquire gear, not get rid of it!
    :no:
     
  11. Jaymz

    Jaymz Audiosexual

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    Brother that is absolutely the Gospel hahaha... Guess what my first amp ever was??? It was a Peavey 1x12 Black Widow combo amp in the mid 80's... That is one Badass underated speaker>>> Its prolly the heaviest and loudest speaker ive ever had my hands on lol >>> Also it has a great sound ;)>>> my amp had the push pull pots on it haha >>> but it was one of the Best and Loudest 1x12 amp combos ive ever owned>>> i wish i would have never traded it>>> i traded it in on a Classical Chorus 212 peavey... it was ok at low volume but the old 1x12 Black Widow Killed it at high volumes that speaker took some major loud volume befor it started to breakup \m/ Thanks for posting this man just made my day :) But also like you said every speaker has its on voice>>> 10 of the same speakers do not sound alike... ive had amps repaired like you and it changed the tone forever...never was the same... But BTW i love my Black Widow amp it was the best 112 amp ive ever owned period \m/
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  12. Jaymz

    Jaymz Audiosexual

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    I own a Kemper love it... Come over an jam on it \m/ >>> but i can setup the sims to sound almost as close to the kemper i really can >>> just have to work on it for awhile like anything else... I dont think any of them are the best either its personal taste to each player just like real amps... heres a Blend of the Line6 Helix with A Real recorded Marshall 2000 of mine>>> i did this other day with Helix... ill do some of the Kemper and other amp Sims with this piece too see what i get>>> but i never use presets i dial in something i like that fits the song on anything i Record>>>rather its a real Amp or an Amp Sim till im happy with the sound>>> but here it is
     
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  13. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    @Jaymz, LOVE the guitar tone! Good track too!
     
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  14. Torrao

    Torrao Platinum Record

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    Dude, are you so butthurt to pursue me between threads? :rofl:

    Why on earth do I have the obligation to create and post clips for you? So you feel entitled to judge me or what? Honestly I couldn't care less about internet fighting, nor you anyway. It's so funny that you claim that I only speak freely on the net, when you don't know me in person at all nor have a clue about what I'm like "face to face" as you say.

    Keep your e-courage to yourself, lol. You can call me e-coward now if you wish since I have absolutely no desire of keeping up with this nonsense.

    I've had enough of you already. Welcome to my ignore list! :mates:
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  15. Helter Skelter

    Helter Skelter Kapellmeister

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    I think the more you push a tube amp into "out of control"-territory the less an emulator would be able to keep up with all the inconsistencies of the response to the incoming signal, especially when you are driving the speakers hard. I think it is these inconsistencies and how fast they change with response to your picking attack, pickup choice, where you hit the strings etc that makes a tube amp feel like it is "alive". This makes you play better, with more feeling, and the recordings are better for it.

    I also think that less dynamic playing styles, (say a fast metal-shredder where consistency between notes is the norm and no improvising) might not need a real tube amp for recording. But if you are playing more dynamic styles, improvising bluesy lines and using the whole dynamic spectrum of the tube amp, adjusting your playing in real time to the response of the amp then I honestly don't think emus will do the job as well. Also if you are using reverb, then there is another layer of hard to emulate response, and it gets even harder for an emu.

    So it really depends on how much your playing style is taking advantage of the tube amps expressiveness, if you are cranking both amp and speakers and if you are using reverb.

    But I have to admit I haven't tried emus since Amplitube 1 (or was it 2?), but at the time I was not impressed at all. I'm interested in trying the S-gear one, as people have said it has good response, almost like a real tube amp.
     
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  16. Jaymz

    Jaymz Audiosexual

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    Thanks you so much guys! @superliquidsunshine @digitaldragon .... i know it aint great but thanks for checkin it out foreal \m/ Ive always loved the Blues but played heavy metal and rock in all my bands in the past>>. but now that im older and just Writing Music for myself ive kinda transformed that love for the blues into my heavier guitar sounds \m/ ive slowed down alot in my old age but i feel it more seems like... wen i do the final tracks im gona take my Strat an do the intro with more of a Stevie Ray Vaughan tone and then bring in the heavier tone with it wen everything comes in together :) see what it sounds like then >>> i love that creamy sound of a Strat goin thru a good Blues amp tone gets my blood pumpin haha \m/ i just Bought a Used Boss Katana 100 the other day from a guy for 150$ because he just needed the money... unbelievable what blues tones i found in this amp and its a Digital amp with 1 12 inch speaker...
     
  17. Jaymz

    Jaymz Audiosexual

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    I agree with you >>> wen im recording a heavy heavy guitar riff Metal like i keep the volume at a level before speaker breaks up so its loud but not loud enough to lose the definition for smooth metal riffing ....cause if to loud speakers start compressing theirselves and turning into mud... Now if im Reording a Blues style more single string lead stuff i might crank the amp up till the speakers are jumping out of the grill lol to get that Breakup cause it just fits the style better.... >>> Metal Guitars dont need super loud volumes to get good tone like other styles might ;)
     
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  18. HoA

    HoA Noisemaker

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    I've tried them all.

    After giving helix a decent go I have now settled on:

    TSE 808 - kazrog - Two Notes Wall of Sound

    For bass helix is excellent especially the Acoustic emulation
     
  19. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    I would divide guitar, amp and speaker as equal thirds in importance.

    @Jaymz great tones.
    Have you ever tried a thiele cab with an EVM 12L type speaker that never breaks up? I switched my cabs to an EV Force and Eminence Delta Pro A, which are not as ice-picky bright.

    if you insist
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2017
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