hi. i can't understand how a bass like this is made.
if i try to layer more than one synth, it gets all muddy and the sound is not what i'm trying to achieve. if you hear the examples, you can hear the bass occupy full spectrum and it has a low pass really high.
what's the combination here? i played with changing phase, waveforms and anything else for entire days. especially the last one, it sounds really fat (tracks are all from rob mayth, and no i'm not trying to copy the bass, i'm trying to understand how it's made).
closest result has been with z3ta: pulse/square and two saws, changing phase and varying cutoffs and eqs later. still is nowhere as close as the sound i'm after.

ps: please avoid KVRian answers like "get nexus and vengeance, instant dance music" or "pick a synth and use a square wave and a saw ahah", thanks and have a good evening

-skip to around 1minute

-right at the start

-around 1minute

 

Did you try to put on a really good saturation plugin (...like decapitator)? That usually gives you the upper frequencies

 

If you want, ask me. Send midi and I will do this with my hardware virus c. These basses from 2002-2005 Dancecore-like trance can be found in early synths, vsti with vengeance presets and so on. My virus has this original vibe of sound of those times you are looking for.
Price is free.
Or do this by yourself, it is not a magic bass. Almost any vsti can do this.
Try vanguard, spire, z3ta, sylenth... A lot of VA synths have this presets, especially earlier ones.

 

Unless you know the hardware synth was used (and the actual shape of the saw) and the distortion unit(s) used after, it's hard to get it identical. I'd go first to several Virus waveshapes (Virus was popular on that era), big unison (the bases are quite wide) and then for distortion, Devil-Loc from Soundtoys could get that character from your example songs.

 

Try layers:
1) Distort a saw. Even try multiband distortion for more shaping possibilities.
2) layer with pure sine (or a lowpassed saw) in the same octave or an octave below layer1.

 

hi thanks everybody for the quick Answers.
as i was saying, i also tried various types of distortions, eqs, and what so ever. i think the main problem as somebody else said is the waveforms themselves. z3ta+2: i managed to morph some of those waves and sculpt them a little bit and managed to get a very rough, base sound to start, but i have no idea how to make it sound so full.

see, if i just take a saw and distort it, or put a saw+square/pulse combination, the sound is similar but it doesn't, ever, get the fullness and strength i want. im pretty sure its not about hardware, analog, digital, or whatever: it's just that im a bit of an idiot when it comes to this and im still learning.

about UNISON: i didn't try this, so i had a quick try and the sound turns real quickly into a kind of supersaw, and if you hear those basses in the tracks posted, the sound isn't wide or has many voices.

ps: z3ta+2, sylenth1 and zebra2 are my favourites. should i try v-station, vanguard, or even omnisphere? (which i know has some waveforms i might find useful). thanks again

@to the guy with the virus: hey yeah thank sfor the offer, but my intent is to learn the sound design mostly, i hardly produce

 

As you will find if you stick around long enough, we are the anti-KVR/GS forum. Not meaning were against them or anything. Were just the misfits who dont care for the condescending elitist attitudes found there. Were like Charly in the Box and the rest of the toys on the island of misfit toys, lol

 

Try the layering I suggested above. Any subtractive synth will do.

 

i'm sorry my friend but what i got was nothing even remotely Close to one of those basses.
i even tried adding 2 sines, one lower and one higher (both in the sub/bass region to fill it better), but theres still something missing

could someone give this a try?

 

distortion is the key to get most hardcore-like bass.
And be carefull : the low bass rumble you hear is kick's tail in most examples you posted ;)

That's the trick in a lot of big sound mixes : kick is bigger than expected, and bass only "fill" gaps.
Here is something near, with sylenth :

 

@Pipotron3000 - the answer in the right direction

Sooo true..! ;)
@black_waves you didn't mention distortion at the beginning, so many of us jumped on that one..

Chatting /w my friend the other day I mentioned this and he reminded me that quite some years ago we were at the studio where this guy (a pro kid frm Ned..?) was recording an album of this kind. Now kinda remember the things he was saying about the production..

There is no "real" synth - it's all a 909. At the time 909 vsts came out and you could "extend" the tail portion (Drumazon was the one). So the KICK is all - if you don't get that right, forget about the rest. The bass is the tail of the kick and you really have to nail the point from where you cut the beginning.
Now the sad part - you say you can't get the fullness and I can guess why.. The guy said "I need 2-3 weeks to make a kick" and "..it's really difficult, no tricks". He had to send the signal twice to bus ch cause he had so many eq and dist (in series), like 10+ of each, they didn't fit on one. After that divided it to 3 bands, sent every band to it's own bus and again eq-dist-eq-eq-dist.. that was supposedly the way he was getting "fullness" - high peaks, distort, eq,.. At the end the (bounced) kick was cut and divided on at least 6 ch for further processing.

So one is the main kick with the low bass tail, as Pipotron3000 mentioned and then you have the off beat bass - 909 kick's tail. Always check your product in context. And remember, you are comparing against mastered polished track..

I don't have any experience producing hard-core-styles dance, it's just what I saw/heard - it may be rubbish, but the guy earned a BMW /w his kicks. And don't discard any info that guys gave you. Every one of them has his own approach and knowledge in different areas.

 

were truer words ever spoken... I've never been able to.. "get with the program"....
not for long anyway.. get your lighters out for mah homeboys... sorry can't help it..

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2017

Man there are a lot of effects on those basses.

You the basic waves will get you close, but if you want that sound you will have to fight with the envelope generators and might even need a pedal and some some mod wheel action.

Examples for Z3TA+ attached, but it isn't the synthesizer I would choose for this from the available contemporary VSTis.

 

what you think about this one:

 

thanks both of you for trying. the SALTWATER's one is closer. may you tell me more about it? i hear a nice buzz and a good bottom end and it could be a v good starting point

uk hardcore bass: yes it is very similar
kick being powerful/tail: yes i do believe the kick is the most important part and helps to feel the fullness, but i don't think it has a huge tail. wouldn't it sound out of tune? i even analyzed tracks and the bass has clearly a sub in it.

thank you for the help

 

IMHO you can't go for a "sound". It's an interplay between kick, the bass from the 909 kick and (edit!) the sidechain on the 1st (downbeat) bass.

Watch this, It's not exactly what I was thinking - but it can give you an idea. And yes I forgot.. was almost morning here... ;) In 90% of cases the "bass from kick" is reversed if on upbeat.
Don't think it's easy to achieve this sound /w standard synths.. I don't own fruity but it's easy to follow

,,,

 

Last edited: Jun 12, 2017

i don't think this kind of bass needs side chaining.

I made this with Ableton Operator, 2 layers, no fx:

one sawtooth wave called: saw-D
and a sine-wave for the sub part

midi:
notes 1/8 length on 2 octaves simultaneously

there is another square wave in Operator called "square-D" leading to similar results but the saw-D matched better the example.
both of these waveforms are especially good for digital Basses

 

I don't think it needs a sidechain, too ;)

It is an "upbeat" bass. It was the first trick used by trance producers...because they didn't have any sidechain :D
There is no time collision (short kick, short bass) in most "oldschool trance".

On those examples, there is time collision (long kick). BUT the bass is "low mid" only.
So the "long kick" "sub tail" is under the bass "low mids" (to my ears). It is very similar to using layered "sub+low mids" basslines...but this time, the kick provide sub freqs :D

I didn't thought i would use such strange explanation

 

My bad! I was not clear enough (but I thought you'll get it from the video). The sidechain is on the first (downbeat) reverted bass. Please look the video at 5:00. He has 2 basses and ducks the 1st (downbeat) one after saying "this sounds like shit, lol". He could just simply mute the first bass - but the sound would be different because sidechained signal starts emerging (kick loses it's power) just before the upbeat and there is the "interplay" I was talking about..

Once again there is NO sidechain on the upbeat bass. Just my crappy explanation, sorry..

 

music style "Hands UP" -