Hell, it was a huge deal in the mid 00's when they released it from the shackles of their hardware....

I have many friends who are engineers and whatnot and I always give them crap about PT, and they know the grift on it etc.. but what it is... and we watch their stock and corporate holdings and decisions and would joke about it... they have been circling the drain as unable to service debt, at least for awhile back a few years ago, and I was hoping it was finally going to go away or Apple would just buy them or something.. but they did some deal, I forget what, which staved off the jackals around 2019 or so iirc... but yeah, I'm not sure how they are sustaining, and don't think that there are geniuses steering that ship right now, as there isn't, and they play musical chairs with it enough that the board and or whatnot know that they haven't hit bingo in terms of actually making the money they used to...

yeah, just did a quick look up, the sold to private equity and went private for a 1.4B deal less then a year ago and then slashed their staff....

so the board bailed, got a premium over their stock worth, they f'd their staff, and we have seen how these private equity firms think they can run a business like this (see: Native Instruments etc)... they are clearly in trouble and trying to find a way... but the water is crowded right now where they were once the only real shark.

I need to study it more, but the board saved their own asses and cashed out, and usually that just doesn't work out well for the customers.. especially when they seem kinda flush out of ideas and options...

 

a new PIG in the Pigsty Industry

TIME TO BBQ AGAIN AND THIS TIME ROAST UNTIL ASHES REVEAL THE AVIDITY

FUCK THEM PIGS

 

that's just sad, for the hard workers that dedicated years of their life to avid. good analogy!!

yeah, you're right. they're long way from it.

 

Yeah, they were at 1485 employees in 2022, a year and a half before they cut a 1/3rd of their staff... so they have more then Ableton and whatnot for sure, and I'm certainly not arguing with you my friend... they are just shedding jobs though... and they don't have a plan apparently.

Their only plan and IP is their existing product for which they are trying to figure out a model to optimize for profiting, but are having so many problems, and can't pay the people they have now... and the private equity firm picked up a crap ton of unserviced DEBT they have... they are pretty much under water... and so they keep throwing darts at the wall with "subscriptions" and hoping that the old guard and whatnot and the people who teach (who would go to damn SCHOOL FOR THIS you know?!), will push people to the product to keep it going...

but one of these days, or years, someone is gonna look to their left, and to their right, and there isn't gonna be a person who grew up with PT as the only viable option. And they know that.. and they can't sandbox forever, as there are new kids born every day who can get a $300 computer and Ableton/fruity loops/whatever or hell, Logic is damn 200 bucks and holds it's water... and Reaper we know etc...

They don't have a sustained business model outside of the dinosaurs... and they can pull the drawbridges on the moats as much as they want with having only AAX or the cost of entry with their stuff... but that can only get you so far...

And I know I could be wrong...

But I'm certainly buying the beer for everyone when they fall.

 

yeah, I don't know WHAT Avid has outside of familiarity of use and name. I can't name something they do "better" other than convincing people that it is, and we see the grift every day in our lives from them and politicians and whatnot.

What can you do in PT that you can't do in another DAW (Reaper in particular if one were to set it up to mirror it etc) other then confuse a 40-50-60 year old programmer/tech/mix engineer who didn't need to use his damn iLok and found that things actually worked faster?

Yeah, I will admit that nudging audio and whatnot in PT was done well, and takes and nomenclature etc... (f, remember how long it took (a: decade plus) for damn Ableton to get that fact we wanted the ability to have takes or comp over some wiz bang extra delay they were selling their new version with that we already had covered with a 3rd party plug in?). ... and yeah, Ableton still doesn't work well with picture and f's it up as they spend too much time with other nonsense (and they really are against the wall with having to rebuild their audio engine from ground up from their insiders as why it can't keep pace ultimately with others going forward and times in the past)...

but that's an aside...

If a kid today at 17 or 20, he or she was given Reaper and PT.. and 4 years in a vacuum, Reaper would come out the winner I imagine in 99.9999% of studio recording or compositional workflow and efficiency... and that is ignoring the big thing of COST.

(and this is coming from someone who is not a Reaper user himself, but has used it and respect it without question).

I have taken some time off from music, and as a pleasant side effect, have been able to avoid god damn PT for 3-4 years.

But now I'm back down in it. And it's still the same old story with those jokers.

If people just realized that Avid doesn't really have them by the short ones and call them out on it.

But again, it's just time. These people have to retire and pass away at some point, and that genius kid in his room making the new paradigm of music is decidedly NOT using "ProTools" to do so.....

 

There are very few people like this, certainly not enough to actually run a business.

Most people aren't idiots who just haemorrhage cash.

Right, but we also shouldn't assume that they're going to buy the latest version, rather than stick with the existing "just works, no need to change" version.

Existing users is not the same as new revenue, and this is why they want users to be hooked to subscription schemes, because otherwise people won't bother with new versions.

 

Last edited: Jun 20, 2024

Those existing users are dying or retiring every day.

(which I know you understand obviously)

And people apparently aren't lining up to "subscribe" unless they have to. And the fact of the matter is, other then their fragile stranglehold right 'now', there really isn't a whole big crop of subscribers coming, which in that business is defined by growth.

They have salted the farm field, and they aren't coming forever.

 

I think Protools is like Windows. We've been hearing hype for 30 years that *this time!* is the new heyday for Linux; companies and users are leaving M$ in droves, and it has finally been proven that Linux will be a great PC platform for Audio!!!. And then five or ten years later, we hear the same thing again. Like it or not, Protools isn't going anywhere. It doesn't matter if Avid own it, Apple, or whatever other "holding company" wants to buy it next. Just like Linux, most people who "just don't like it" don't even know how to use it.

 

Hell, if Apple were to buy Avid, which they could with money earned in pocket change interest in time less then was spent on thread comments here, one would think they would have a stranglehold on Hollywood and movie production re: audio etc for "now" and the "near" future if you think it's not going anywhere.

The fact that they aren't interested kinda says something.

And hey, maybe it's not. I don't know. But they have more business acumen then I do, and the skinny on the Avid deal is not good for anyone outside of those lucky fool f'err that got cashed out.

But I do know how to use Protools, and at the same time, no, I just don't like it. (and perhaps just 'for me') But I get it's utility for what people are using it for, as it works. As does a screwdriver. And it's not my bag or job, but I know enough to know that there are other things that can do the same, and more, and importantly cheaper, with a weekends worth of a little RTFM, and the equity firm who picked up their large amount of debt (you have to understand Avid has refinanced debt for a long long time, like Donald Trump) and their company for 1.4B isn't on the right end of that, coming to that realization with the the butt end problem of that landing on the currently installed user base.... and the previous board at Avid were out the door as soon as the ink dried on that swift move at 32% or whatever over value what it was worth, ...and they were dancing in the streets. It's not their problem anymore.

 

" It's funny how often though when I'm working with those people they have to run off stems or tracks for me to 'fix' or work on with another DAW, as PT can't do it easily....

But for recording or lining stuff up to picture and their nomenclature and their workflow with directors and DP's and whatnot, they just are familiar with the format and the different file exchanges etc...."


Omf/AAF Saves so much time and headache exchanging session with my clients who dont have protools

 

Reaper. 60 bucks. 1 download. No iLok. Protools skin/Theme

 

First, I don't use PT personally - been on Logic since before it was called Logic (Notator SL for those keeping score) - though I do book and record in studios and pay engineers who do. So I don't really care if people want to bash PT, or Avid, or both. I hardly care when I see people bashing Apple and/or Logic. You're not the first, you won't be the last, unfortunately.

Second, for the main course now: most people who actually do use PT on a daily basis and make money from doing so are running studios (of all sizes), or trying to. I needn't remind anyone on here that's a musician (sorry DJs, you're not musicians, and I'll tell you why - nicely - if you ask nicely), how challenging it is to earn a comfortable living (rent, utilities, healthcare, car, gear, and God help you if you've got a wife and kids) as a musician, or studio owner, or both.

So it would appear to be a small percentage of all musicians worldwide (who are running PT).

But, PT is used also on (most if not) all major tours, for backing tracks (remember the A.S. SNL lip synching fiasco 20 years ago). Practically every single artist now has dual PT rigs playing backing tracks (a few use DP, but it's uncommon).

And third, every single film and possibly every single TV show you watch is recorded and mixed on PT as well. For dessert, Avid's biggest "customer" (indirectly though they may be), is Netflix. Not because they buy a whole lotta rigs - they don't - but because they mandate that all shows and films, produced by them or not, acquired overseas or not, are delivered to them on Avid products (Media Composer and ProTools). All those new films and series you watch on Netflix are ADR'ed (if not foley'ed), edited, mixed and delivered as MC and PT sessions to Netflix (for translation, censorship, etc), which forces all Film studios and production houses all over the world to use Avid products. That's a lot of coin.

It's a lot of coin, and that's why they didn't raise the prices (allegedly) for some time, but now that revenue bump has given birth, and Mama Avid is still eating as though she's preggers, hence the CEO change, price hikes, etc.

My point is simple: stop complaining y'all. PT is the audio standard, no matter your wine and cheese, just as Boeing planes were the standard, pretty much everywhere. Now the 'new' European kid (Ableton Live) is the new sexy swinging Airbus, but Avid, like Boeing, still has its loyal customer base - who've invested so much money and time into it, they can't just back out. And those studios and production houses spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on cameras and lighting equipment (and salaries). The cost increase of their PT subscription licenses doesn't even dent their pillow.

So bash away if it makes you feel better (husbands and wives do it all the time), but don't expect Avid, or PT, to go away, or suddenly grow a conscience, or common sense. Not gonna happen. They don't need to. Likelihood is they won't ever.