Is there a reason experienced producers want to use pro tools these days?

I mean, all the people I know using it (admittedly not in big studios) are either really really p'd off with avid and their business practices, or they just keep it around for legacy stuff but have pretty much moved on to pastures greener. I don't even know what the politics are but avid seem to have really upset a lot of people, and that's saying something in the audio industry where it's every companies duty to royally piss off their customers (hi hi steinberg).

I get that it's the industry standard in larger commercial studios and because of its ubiquity it's become the defacto standard for file transfers and whatnot. Some mastering houses have it as well because of compatibility of stems (I'm no expert here). So I see why it's still around and avid are still in business.

But for smaller project studios, is there anything it offers that my other 10 DAWs don't? I mean to really take advantage of it you need certain hardware as well. So what would a perfect up to date crack of the latest pro tools offer that I can't get elsewhere? It seems to me it's the mystique of it not being cracked (at least not lately) and the fact it is the de facto standard in studio land, that make people hunger after this DAW so much.

I'm not knocking it. I'd love a copy myself. I used it 10 years back on mac and found it a bit clunky. But the whole audio world has moved on from there. I've heard that it's very buggy as well and experienced users find that another thing to be annoyed about, it's not just the supposed price gouging by avid.

I realise that DAWs like Cubase are a hot mess of bugs as well, but for me, there's nothing that's personally a showstopper or things I can't work around or do in a different DAW. I just use Cubase to its strengths and I get by with it making music.

I'm asking this question in case I'm missing out on something. But to be honest, I'm never gonna buy a mac and I'm never gonna buy this software as it is, so I'm just curious. Good luck to the people that use it and make a living from it though. I guess they don't think it's too bad.

I found the AU version of this the other day (the older one that works so they say) but I haven't installed it. Does anyone use that?

I have at least a dozen different DAWs installed and I probably use about half of them regularly on a rotating basis. I'm not in the market for another one. All the same, the question still stands.

 

At least a dozen DAWS????
One more won't harm then.

 

I remember a discussion that took place here or on the sister site about 8 years ago. Some people were defending Cubase, saying that nothing can even come close, but some others were already using Studio One. To defend Cubase, similar arguments were usen then, as now are used to defend Pro Tools: "but Cubase is THE standard", "but all the professionals use Cubase" etc. etc. And suddenly someone posted this: "Cubase is for old people". I remember I laughed loudly at this. But soon, although using Cubase for over 20 years, I migrated to Studio One (and later to Reaper).
So, paraphrasing that post, I can say: Pro Tools is for old people.

 

Well, Cubase is considered to be the premier PC platform DAW. Just as Logic is the premier Apple DAW. I don't think anyone can disagree with that, as long as they aren't being emotional in their thinking. Steinberg are the biggest players in the game for PC and go all the way back to Pro 16 and Atari days. Decades and decades back. There's a few DAWs for Apple, but there's a reason Apple bought Logic (previously Emagic and previous to that C-Lab iirc back in Atari days). Same reason they bought out Camel Audio.

Sure, there are better DAWs for many peoples' needs. Sure, you can hate away. Most of us just use them as tools though when we advance to a certain stage of mastering our craft. And then we have a love/hate relationship with not just the software but the business practices of the companies that develop the software as well. Steinberg have been absolute shits in many ways, but they have been absolute darlings in many others. YMMV.

I don't use a dozen different DAWs just to be clever. They each do something better or more unique than the competition. I make music. I've mastered a few of the DAWs and the others I keep around because they do something the others don't do. Programs like FLStudio might surprise you for its advanced mult-midi import functionality. Programs like Reaper are a Swiss-Army knife in many ways, but then again might only be the reasonable alternative when importing from decades old media like DAT tapes.

But never mind all that. There is no doubt that pro tools (the 'pro' stands for 'producer' btw, not 'professional') is the de facto standard, the industry standard among the bigger and more commercial studios. Did it get there because it's a great DAW? Maybe. Maybe not. But that's just the way the cards dropped. People use it because they have to. Some even use it because they like it. Some use it despite its problems. Some use it and don't find any problems with it at all.

DAWs like Cubase started out primarily as MIDI workstations and DAWs like Samplitude started out primarily as Audio workstations and now they have both tacked on and 'kludged' the other parts together because all DAWs are expected to be the be all and end all to all users in this day and age.

Samplitude is a great DAW but it's truly buggy as hell. It's why I've not upgraded from Pro X 3. But it's still good enough for me to do serious work on. I just have to be careful. Studio One is a great DAW. I use that a lot. In many ways it can replace Cubase (it's coded by the guys that used to code cubase). I don't use pro tools because I don't work in the industry. I don't have a mac. I don't master or need stems for compatibility. I don't have the hardware to run it. I don't need it at all. But I'd love a copy to see how it's come along. I'm not thirsty though.

I'm happy to entertain any point of view. I'm not a bigot. But Cubase is the industry standard for PC as Logic is the industry standard for Mac, as is Pro Tools the industry standard for commercial studios and high end producers who use it as the sine-qua-non platform for their paid professional work. There's no debate to be had. Do I like Logic? No, it's the most illogical piece of software ever invented. Are there better DAWs for mac? Probably. I don't know. I'm not emotional about it because I've saved up and bought all the DAWs I use.

When I advise youngsters starting out, I always say the same thing: if you are going to buy one piece of software to start off with it should be your DAW, for obvious reasons (it already contains plugins, you need to get support etc. etc.).

But by all means, everyone else carry one with the DAW WARs and why your daw is better than dat daw! LOL.

Who cares. They are tools. The tools that are the de facto industry standards these days only got there because, well, because...

Betamax was better than VHS, but VHS became prominent in the market, because...

If you run a multi-million dollar studio in LA or London you will use pro tools as your standard. But that isn't to say you won't also have Cubase and Logic as well, because you will. And any producer or engineer worth his salt (meaning he gets paid) will know how to use all of them to a more than proficient degree. But when those stems are bounced down and sent from the studio in London to the studio in LA (or vice versa) they will probably be sent as pro tools projects, just because!

It's not that the other studio doesn't have Cubase or Logic. Or that the person they are sending the files to doesn't know how to use Cubase or Logic to a very capable degree. It's just because that is the common lingua franca of this day and age.

Ok then, mr. smarty pants, if all the studios have all the programs, and all the producers/engineers know how to operate all the programs, why do they always send the files as pro tools projects?

Good question.

It's because of the plugins used. They translate. If the project was done in pro tools and used pro tools plugins (not necessarily just their own native ones but 3rd party as well), then they need that for recall if they want to change something. Is there a bit too much compression on the vox because the engineer was baked at the time via too long a session and his ears were kaput? Is there a really sweet reverb on the vox that just works perfectly and nothing else will do, but it just needs that smidgen more to really make it 'pop' in the mix? Etc.

Sure, if the project was started from first principles in Cubase or Logic, then in that case they would be sending the project files for those DAWs. That is if they really wanted to get in to the nitty gritty of remixing. Some might. Then those files would be needed. Otherwise, Pro Tools, just because.

If a project is pretty much done and sounding good, the producer/engineer will render down to pro tools the stems needed for transfer to other studios or for mastering. He's not going to send the OG project files. Guitars/Drums/Vox/Kbd/FX/Wtf as stems in a pro tools project. From there, a further producer/engineer doesn't have to faff about or get lost in the minutiae. He can focus on the job at hand without distractions. Plus, it stops others from fucking with the files and keeps things true to the OG.

Sure, you can start a project from scratch in PT, but it really comes in to its own and is far more pleasant to use for mixing and pre-mastering stems. As I understand it. I'm not a pro. I don't even know any pros, really. This stuff is common knowledge if you are paying attention.

 

Says who?

Disagree with you on Cubase or Logic? I disagree with you on Cubase.

Thanks for the history lesson, but it seems your data is from the past too.

Steinberg Annual Revenue = $30.32 million
Ableton Annual Revenue = $57.49 million
Image-Line Revenue = $40.26 million

And the reason Apple bought a middle of the road company like Camel Audio is?

I could go on but that's just your first paragraph.

 

anyone have pro tools first 2021.7 ? (NEVER MIND FOUND IT)

 

Last edited: Dec 9, 2021

Damn.

Busted!

Maybe I got a couple of things wrong.

 

Stockholm syndrome, how your colleagues perceive you, etc. Not a joke.

Tell any middle aged or older producer/audio engineer which DAW you use. You WILL get quite a few disgusted looks unless it's PT. Like a dirty peasant trying to converse with a member of the royal family.

Jaded and bitter elitist curmudgeons who are way past their prime still insist on using nothing but PT. That's how they've always done things. They still don't realize that 1999 was 22 years ago. Let's not even talk about how being the "industry standard" creates cult-like circlejerks.

Laugh all you want but this is the hill I'm willing to die on.

 

Last edited: Dec 9, 2021

I wish it existed today, I use CamelCrusher in every project of mine and ik tons of other people do as well. And the compressor part of it is based on CamelPhat i guess.

 

hdx still makes sense if you are producing in a multiroom environment with musicians.

 

Stockholm syndrome is a bit extreme, I think the main reason older people still use PT is that it's the program and workflow they're used to, changing DAW's is a time consuming undertaking, you're basically relearning everything you already knew how to do in the DAW you already use, yes Avid is a shitty company and PT is not without it's bugs and faults, but it's what they learned, and some people are just set in their ways and abhor change, I'm almost 50 and I mainly use PT, but I'm open to trying other DAW's, I've recorded a few songs in S1 and Samplitude and trying out Reaper, they're all good DAW's in their own rights.......imho

 

Maybe it's a slight exaggeration but more often than not it's people like them who make learning a new DAW sound like a herculean, nigh-impossible task. "If a pro says it then it must be true!"

All DAWs are fundamentally the same (minus Reason but we don't talk about the spaghetti monsters) and while I absolutely understand that these people have a precise workflow & set of hotkeys practically burned into their minds I genuinely can't understand why they always discourage people from ever trying something new, let alone switch DAWs. It's an Avid product for crying out loud, they're not exactly the pinnacle of UX. Or optimization. Or.. well, you get the point. (also lol didn't they introduce a dark theme earlier this year after so long? I haven't tried to use PT since mid 2017 but working without a dark theme was hell)

Avid struck gold with PT not due to PT itself but mostly due to the hardware they sold alongside it. Don't get me wrong, it was extremely overpriced back then and it's extremely overpriced now - but it DID have a purpose back in the early 2000s.

Now? Not so much.

 

Last edited: Dec 10, 2021

Rather than give my opinion, I thought your viewpoint was valid in the post, so I looked elsewhere on a Pro forum. The person that made this post said they had 21 years with ProTools in a major studio. It's not about right or wrong, but it does answer why people who have been using it for years still use it. The thing is Reaper, FL, Ableton, Studio One and others all came after Logic, Cubase and P{roTools. When they came out they were nowhere as good but like anything, it is expected that eventually, the student overtakes the master.

 

if there is a free version, the full version must be better. so i buy this and won something.

:D

 

They are most likely planning to kill the free version permanently.

 

There's a info about it in Focusrite account when you try to get Pro Tools First:

 

Avid not thinking clearly and killing their products name a more iconic duo!

What a bunch of retards, I swear AVID is the dumbest company out there. They have notoriously released shit like this and then killed them. And these products dont even last long. What's the point? They EOL their hardware and software so fast. What a shit company.

 

All things considered, Avid dominates this ranking with over $ 360 million annually.

 

Media Composer. Used by the VFX guys behind Interstellar.

Till then, may I interest you guys with Media Composer | First? No product description, just jump straight to the point and ask to sign up. Sigma moves, avid