About gainstaging. Is it the peak level or rms that should be at -18db. This is the area not explained in most gainstaging lessons.
Thanks fam.

 

The pre-mastering stereo material (so the final mix) should not peak above -6dB FS.
Your -18 dB limit could be the peak level on the submix busses.
RMS is an "average" value so you'll never see it in a gain staging context, where the peak level control & measurement is critical.

 

peak is anywhere around -12dbfs or -10dbfs, it also depends on type of signal your recording too, for example a distorted guitar may avg -18dbfs but peaks aren't much higher this is because the signal is not overally dynamic in nature, sounds with loud transients like drums will peak much higher and show lower rms values due to the nature of the sound and the type of metering used to analyse the signal. Most daw metering is setup on a relatively med response, so try reading up on preferred 3rd party meters if you want to be anal about it, most do differ in design and application of what should be simple metering!

Don't track too hot leave enough headroom, with 24 bit recording there's no need to use all the digital bits like in the days of 16bit systems.

Don't over analyse it but aim in the middle rms wise, too low or too high is not good.
Mic position and source are King, recorded at sensible levels will support many plugins that are designed to be in a sweet spot around the levels your searching for.

Happy recording

 

Last edited: Apr 24, 2016

doesnt really matter, as we are recording in 24 or 32 bit anyway. so if it peaks higher just pull it back

 

unless if he\she's recordin' on an analogue console

 

It doesn't, if the bus has no effects on it. Otherwise, many FX (vintage EQ/compressor emulations) will start "distorting" sometimes for signals of over -10 dB FS. By distorting I mean coloring the sound with analog-specific artefacts, which in most of the cases are pleasant. However, when coloring is no needed, attention (and pre-fader metering) should be dedicated to the gains.

 

yep.. a lot of VST has the tendency to distort the signal... when working with RBass from Waves for example, i always have to trim to -18db... it has some sort of "sweet-point" near that, no matter how hot the signal is...

 

When you read about the -18 mark, I guess they mean RMS, as most engineers who talk about it read their metering on VU meters. Likewise, plugins (especially hardware emulations) use VU meter readings. I could be wrong.

 

VU is not RMS. VU needles indeed have a slow response therefore tend to ignore peak values baut they are definitely not RMS indicators.

 

Download a VU meter, and make the signal mantain most of it's time at 0VU... that 0VU will be around the -18dbfs peak... Now, as others already said, VU is not RMS, but it will still ignore peaks because of the slow response... the advice is a trim plugin and a VU plugin, and you are ready to go... if not, use the peak... Going trough VirtualMixingRack with normalized to -18dbfs I stay most of my time between the -1VU and 0VU, with random peaks at about 0,3VU... so you'll be fine

 

I am greatly pleased with Hornet VU meter.
http://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-vu-meter/
For 4 Euros you get a VU meter with auto gain control if needed.

 

I purchased a headphone amp that I use coming out of my interface when I began tracking at my preferred -18 as there was just not enough gain to satisfy my need for a decent level in my cans. Now I am a happy camper and can hear myself think once again.

 

@superliquidsunshine What headphones are you using? Follow up, do they remain comfortable after being worn for hours? They one's I currently have aren't?

 

do you know how to do pre fader metering in studio one v2?

 

What about us idiots who go by pure dB, as opposed to dBfs, RMS or VU? When I started out, I was actually recording all my audio and normalizing it to 0 dB, meaning, all my audio tracks were peaking at 0 dB. Needless to say, no matter how you mix, your individual audio tracks are not supposed to be 0 dB. And by that, I mean, the audio itself was -0 dB; the fader levels were obviously set much lower (and perhaps even too low, as I've always been compensating for loud audio). Later on, I've heard all kinds of different information about how loud each individual track is supposed to be. Most of them sounded wrong -- I kept hearing -12 dB, which sounds way too low. I've settled on -6 dB, seeing as how most DAW and hardware faders go up to +6 dB. So far, I haven't mixed anything this way, but I figured I'd do more research before doing so. Now, for my mastering, I've always aimed for something between -14 dB to no higher than -10 dB RMS, which seems about right. However, whether I had every other aspect right, having the audio waveforms peaking at 0 dB is a problem. Plugs, especially analog emulations, aren't designed to process audio at 0 dB, so everything sounds wrong, no matter where your faders are set. I'm going to attempt some remixes after re-recording all my audio tracks at -6 dB and see if that helps at all ...

 

I am fighting with this idea as well. I have a friend that went to CRAS who is giving me mixing tips however I don't understand what he means. I am only making beats in Maschine right now and I keep asking him what my levels should be at the sound, group and, master areas of the program.

 

Off topic but may help the conversation.
dbfs is obsolete, LUFS is the future.

 

The thing is that each instrument in a track loses its dynamic range along the mixing chain. Say, a drum kit might have peaks at -6 and valleys at -30. As it reaches the drum bus compressor, that range gets compressed to bring out character and blend better with the rest of tracks. The higher you peak a track, the more it gets forced to compress. By the time the whole mix gets to the two-bus track, compressor included many at times, the dynamic range is, say, between 0 and -9 or less. Then when you drive the whole thing up in mastering, the track is over squashed. The mastering stage has no room to properly preserve the mix. Now, this is something I've just gotten to realize. If I keep my levels consistently at -18, chances are the dynamic range is higher on every track count, including the mix bus, which in the end, leaves me with open chances for sending mixes to mastering or even trying as many things as I want when doing my own masters. With a bit depth of 24 bits, which means 144 dB of dynamic range, there's no need to boost up anything to zero. Things are loud anyway. 16 bits, CD quality is 96 dB. With -18, nevermind which scale you equate your figures to, the mix is way around the optimal level.

 

Last edited: Apr 25, 2016

On a side note, I'd like to share something I've seen at the Recording Revolution last week. It resonated with me and I've started using it. In the interview, Jacquire King shared a great way to deal with the right levels on a VU meter. He revealed the following:

Start your mix on the kick drum. Make it peak at -3 on the VU meter.
Add the bass and together they must peak at 0. Regardless of how you hear the bass in your monitoring, this should be the ballpark for the bass level in the mix. (If your bass sounds too thin or too boomy, then your room is at fault).
Mix in the rest of the drum kit to taste.
Add the vocals at this point and make them all blend. Then add the rest of the tracks to the mix.

King said that VU meters are more sensitive to bass frequencies. Then it's safe to conclude that by adding the rest of the elements is not going to mess up your gain staging by much. I've been trying this this week in a couple of mixes and it works. Things sound open and clear. At least it is my experience. I hope it helps. You should watch the interview if you haven't already.

 

ATH-M50 by Audio Technical are the headphones that I gave been using for a while now. I have two pair, an older fixed curly cable that I needed to replace the pads on after a few years as they began cracking and lost puffiness, and a newer pair that has a removable cable that comes with a long and short straight cables and one curly cable. They sound good to me and have enjoyed tracking with them. They are closed back and they isolate well. I can surely recommend them as they are sturdy, fold up nicely for transport and come with a pouch to put them in, play well with portable music devices like my Samsung phone if I for some reason don't have my earphones around and come with a screwide on 1/4 adapter so can be used with 99% of other equiptment. Hope this answers your question.