Audio PC build (July '18)

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware' started by JudoLudo, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. KidPix

    KidPix Producer

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    If you ever want to use Thunderbolt the Asus PRIME Z370-A is the only
    current socket 1151 Asus motherboard compatible(Thunderbolt header).
    https://www.asus.com/Motherboard-Accessory/ThunderboltEX-3/specifications/

    For lower latency Intel is better and the Asus PRIME Z370-A + Intel i5-8600K is a very nice combo.
    You do not need PCIe, normal SATA is enough, Samsung(better) or Crucial is OK.

    The onboard GPU is enough, spend the cash for the PRIME Z370-A + Intel i5-8600K and not for GPU.

    For cooling Thermalright Macho Rev.B works good and silent
    https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermalright/Macho_RevB/6.html
    https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6930/thermalright-macho-rev-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  2. Daskeladden

    Daskeladden Rock Star

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    hi, after some of my equipment was destroyed by lightning i'm going to buy some new stuff. My old Zoom UAC-8 was unstable because the drivers sucked on windows, especially if you use Ableton.
    So I have decided to try Thunderbolt because that is the future. I'm buying:

    Motherboard:
    Asus Z170 Premium Motherboard 1151 (in the mail from Israel to Norway when this is posted)
    Z170-PREMIUM | Hovedkort | ASUS Norge

    I bought it from a guy on Ebay, he still got 9 new motherboard left:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/252295192891

    Audio interface:
    Antelope Audio Zen Tour
    Antelope Audio Zen Tour | Sweetwater

    Gonna cost me around $2500 here in Norway. The motherboard alone cost $340, pretty stiff price for an old motherboard. But it got built in thunderbolt and it fits my "old" Intel Core i7-6700K Skylake Prosessor. And I have read some negative stuff about thunderbolt pci add on cards if you use them for audio interfaces. Pretty logic that add on (audio interfaces) connected through another add on (pci card) is not good. I have read that some companies that have drivers for thunderbolt on windows does not guarantee that it works with pci add on cards like ASUS ThunderboltEX 3. Lets hope it's worth it

    By the way my old motherboard (MSI Z170A KRAIT GAMING, Socket-1151) did not have a Thunderbolt-header.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
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  3. saltwater

    saltwater Guest

    8600k should be available for 240 or less, try to find better shops
    i did not even consider Ryzen for your case but comparing its 2600x
    on paper the Ryzen looks better for the money and it is indeed, but not for your special case.

    while the 2600x will do what you need, the i5 is still significantly better for plugins and latency. (+26% single core integer)
    if you consider overclocking later, the i5 runs over 5 Ghz while the Ryzen barely manages 4 Ghz


    the 2600 or 8400 are both a no go for low latency and plugin power
     
  4. JudoLudo

    JudoLudo Kapellmeister

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    ok, now this is a nice argument. why? where they're gonna limiting my work? (ofc not complaining nor sarcastic, I'm really curious about this statement)

    thank you!
     
  5. saltwater

    saltwater Guest

    mainly because of the poor base clock speeds
     
  6. saltwater

    saltwater Guest

    this is golden video to learn about this topic



    at 8:20 the essential thing about latency starts if the other content bores you :winker:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2018
  7. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    I only recommend waiting atm. In about a month or so the new Intel 9xxx cpus are coming, which will be an upgrade to the already existing tech and 1151 socket. This means most Coffee Lake compatible mobos will get an upgrade to work with the new cpus. A new chipset (Z390 most likely) along with a refresh line of mobos will also be avail, which will up the already existing features. More feats out of the box is always welcome. My 2 cents, sit comfortably in your chair and wait till next month, watch the new ones come out and the already existing take a dive in price. Whatever you choose then will be fine.
    PS: Rumours all over the web has it the new series will also feature for the first time an 8-core i9 compatible with Z series mobos at around 450 dlrs. If you ask me this ain't no rumor but i 'll hold my breath till it's official. I also hear this time around there will be mobos with native Thunderbolt 3 support, a much wanted feature for audio users which Intel has kept from Z270 and Z370 series in order to provide it in the x299 mobos. Silly move if you ask me to keep TB from the Z series while it was present on select mobos in Z170.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  8. Daskeladden

    Daskeladden Rock Star

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  9. JudoLudo

    JudoLudo Kapellmeister

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    yeah alredy seen, great video
    sadly, I choosed the wrong period to buy a PC
     
  10. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    So, my opinion in short.. i love it heheh :wink:. Great board, TB out of the box and the U2 option is a safe bet for future upgrades (upcoming U2 model of Optane Intel SSD will kill everything but will be super expensive). Among other systems i have an Asus Z170-A/USB 3.1 it has a TB header but needs the Asus Addon card to provide TB and compatibility with TB audio interfaces is a matter of luck lol, although UAD and MOTU drivers have broaden their compatibility lately.

    Some newer boards to look at with configs that work with TB audio cards are:
    The ASRock Z270 Taichi + ASRock Thunderbolt 3 Add-on Card
    https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z270 Taichi/index.asp
    The addon card here https://www.asrock.com/mb/spec/product.asp?Model=Thunderbolt 3 AIC

    The Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 + Gigabyte Thunderbolt 3 Add-on Card:
    https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z370-AORUS-Gaming-5-rev-10#kf
    The addon is here: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GC-ALPINE-RIDGE-rev-10#ov

    The Aorus board from Gigabyte makes for a quite good purchase since the upcoming 9xxx Intel series will be back-compatible with the 370 chipset, all you 'll have to do is a bios update.
    Cheers :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  11. JudoLudo

    JudoLudo Kapellmeister

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    cool these TB3 add-ons. Are they useable with every mobo? which are the limits?
     
  12. JudoLudo

    JudoLudo Kapellmeister

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    one doubt.. I read that the Asus PRIME B360-PLUS (1151) supports memory at max speed 2666MHz, where as the B350-PLUS (AM4) goes to 3200 MHz. if I buy the B360-PLUS, can I use Corsair Vengeance LPX at 3000MHz?
     
  13. DonCaballero

    DonCaballero Producer

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    Interesting. Thanks for the heads up. I'm days away from pulling the trigger on my dream system, but was also considering waiting until mid September as I'll be doing a bit of traveling in the meantime. I'll research the Intel 9xxx release, and if there's likely to be a decent savings I'll wait.

    My configuration:

    • i7-8700K
    • Corsair H115i Liquid CPU Cooler (to OC to 5Ghz)
    • Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 7
    • Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 2666Mhz (OC'd to 3200Mhz)
    • Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD
    • Fractal Design Define R6 Case
    • EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G3 Power Supply
    • No video card initially (will use onboard video, then get a Radeon)
    • Future upgrade: 32GB Intel Optane memory + 6TB WD Gold Enterprise HDD
    :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  14. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    If you want to use a TB3 addon card your mobo has to have a Thunderbolt 3 header. The ones i mentioned are tested and certified to work with TB audio interfaces. To my knowledge only some of the Intel Z and X99/X299 motherboards include a TB header. The cheaper mobos with the lesser chipsets have fewer pci lanes can support a USB-C @ 10 gbps but TB3 is 40gbps, making practically a PCI3 x16 connection. The only difference is the proprietary protocol & connector and the fact you daisy chain TB devices on the same computer (just like we did in the early 2ks with Firewire).
    If you have to buy asap and cannot wait a month or so, do not buy anything other than Z series (or higher lol) for audio workstation purposes. The Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 @ 170 dlrs is a great option. You can always buy the TB3 addon card (~60 dlrs) later. This mobo is a solid overclocker too and a favorite with reputable reviewers as well:
    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gigabyte-z370-aorus-gaming-5-atx-motherboard,5569.html
    https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8460/gigabyte-z370-aorus-gaming-5-motherboard-review/index11.html

    @DonCaballero
    Just wait my friend, the 8 core/16 thread i9 9900k @3.6 ghz (16mb L3 cache) is coming. Also a new one for Intel, the i7 9700k 3.6ghz (12mb cache) will also be 8 core but will include no HT. The i7 is looking absolutely fine to me.
    Also, there are 2 only differences from Z370 to Z390.The Z390 mobos will have 6 USB 3.1 Gen2 ports and Wifi 802.11ac (up to 1700mbps says Intel) from the chipset (Z370 has no native usb3.1 gen2 from the chipset, mobos providing this connections have additional controllers). Prices will start from around 130-140 dlrs and upwards for the new mobos but i am guessing at the lowest price point there will be some tradeoffs in features. We 'll just have to wait and see.
    Now i saw your config and i have a couple of "objections" if i may say so. First is the PSU, EVGA makes some great psus, this one, although a top psu, it's noisy. May i suggest a Corsair RMx 750 or 850, you 'll never hear it and it's also a top performance psu.
    My second thought was about your future upgrade. Wth would you need a WD Gold ? And with Optane caching lol ? The WD Gold hdds are optimized for Datacenter servers, the most proper would be a fast hdd like a Barracuda Pro or WD Black (i prefer the Baracuda Pros the last 2 years, they have significantly improved performance). Also important, as Intel has it implemented up until now, Optane caching doesn't work with storage drives, only works with a system drive, meaning you cannot use it with anything else other than your C: drive. And while Optane cache can boost the performance of a hdd, you 'll be faster with even the cheapest SATA SSD lol. These caching solutions are mostly geared towards gamers who want a vast C drive for installing Steam+games etc.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  15. JudoLudo

    JudoLudo Kapellmeister

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    hi there, is there a place/site/something where I can compare PSU noise? I found CPU Cooler noise comparison, but not for PSU

    yeah, I'm searching for mobos with many USB connections. minimum 7, 8 better, I'll have to connect lots of devices
     
  16. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    Not comparing noise exactly, but in the links i'm posting below, you can view the best psus as selected by top reviewers and you then can check the individual reviews on each psu. Personally the last 2-3 years i only use Corsair RMx psus in the systems i build for myself and my few select audio pc clients. They are rated 80+ Gold, come with a 7 years warranty and include a semi-passive design, meaning the fan doesn't spin unless heat exceeds a certain point and when it does you 'll never hear it as it never goes over 15-16 db. The other silent psus to consider, come from the "be quiet" brand, they are slightly cheaper but buck for buck i'd buy the RMx any day, their warranty is second to none atm.
    Cheers
    https://www.techradar.com/news/best-pc-power-supply
    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-psus,4229.html
    https://www.thetechlounge.com/best-power-supply/
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  17. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

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    that's a very nice build, if I were building a rig nowadays, I'd go with pretty much same specs, except cpu cooler - I'd always prefer some big Noctua air cooler over cheep-ass AiO liquid joke :yes:
     
  18. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    Too old school bro :). Only kidding of course, the Noctuas are indeed the cream of the crop when it comes to air cooling. Well... i remember we had this same debate last year again ehehehe...
    Thing is, if you want space and a tidy, clean look inside your computer case, liquid AIO is the way to go. And more important if you work with audio, the particular 115i is even more silent than the Noctua. Heck i have a (slightly cheaper) H100i v2 on my 7700k and i never heard it. Also air coolers are dust gatherers. Every month or so, cleaning maintenance is mandatory with air coolers. Dual radiator liquid AIOs are usually mounted on top of the comp case, making it much easier to clean the fans with a simple cheap hi speed blower (if the system builder was smart enough to use a case with a removable/magnetic mesh filter on top and put the fans in a pull-out config).
    These AIO coolers are solidly built (nothing like the first gens cheapassery,faulty pumps etc) and come with a very good warranty of at least 5 years.
    Personally i take you for a progressive thinking person, so i invite you to try one of these. I bet you 'll be surprised how things have moved forward in just a few years time.
    All the best :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
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  19. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

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    that is something which even surprised me - my Noctua 14cm fan idles at less than 300rpm, being literally inaudible, spins only when doing some heavy video editing (yet perfectly usable for audio works) - can't say that about any water pump AiO system, moreover the top mounting system makes radiator fans very audible and because of the way they need to push air through, they are no more silent than any other fans,
    thing is, heat dissipation always depends on surface - which bigger air coolers have "more" than average dual-fan AiO radiator, therefore it does not cool "better", only faster maybe due to liquid taking the heat away to the radiator,
    I'm continuously seeking for tech progression, but still I very much prefer bulky heatsink capable of passively cooling cpu when somewhat idle, rather than AiO pump-rad system which cannot afford to fail,
    talking about maintenance, dust etc.., having a decent case (Define R5 here) with removable dust filters equipped on intakes, I barely clean them couple times a year and everything's fine (very little dust particles get inside case anyway)
     
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  20. ddoctor

    ddoctor Kapellmeister

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    Since the OP is using Cubase it should be stated that Steinberg advices users (https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/206929270-DAW-Components) that the chipset is almost the most important part of the pc - even more important than cpu. It simply suggest to get the best possible motherboard - and since there are no audio production motherboards, go with gamer - gaming aims at low latency and that is all you are aiming at too!
     
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