Audio Noob needs Audio Pro (Studio Building)

Discussion in 'Studio' started by BENZZER, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. BENZZER

    BENZZER Member

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    Hello from Germany! (my english is trash sorry) Im trying to build a Studio (Mixing/Mastering!!) at my girlfriends House and I want to improve the sound with acoustic treatment. But im a noob so i dont have a clue where to place what. Maybe this room is total garbage, idk.

    Need help with the listening position, Speaker position and Acoustic Treatment.

    My buget is about 500€.
    I dont want to record anything!!!!!!!!!!!


    Some informations about my room:
    I dont have any furniture right now, but i will buy a desk and a chair and maybe a couch (?)

    My speakers:
    a Pair of KRK 6" (with Stands)
    a Pair of Yamaha 5"

    My room:
    Width 2,75m
    Lenght 6m
    Hight: 1,95m

    Floor is laminate, ceiling is wood.
    The walls with the windows are made out of conctrete, the other walls are made out of wood.

    [​IMG]
    Idk what listening posistion would be good. Maybe u guys can help me with that. [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    So there is something special with the room i cant translate into the program. On the side with the two windows, there is a long wooden beam/bar (about 20cm thick) (Fachwerkhaus..) reaching from one short side to the other short side towards the door. And on the side with the single window, there is a wierd wood construction.[​IMG]
    (the brown marks are wood bars)
    This room is very very wierd and idk if i can mix in this room or not.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    As i said i want to mix and master my tunes in this room, nothing fancy (no recording) and I want a good room-sound (acoustic treatment).
    Please help me.

    If u guys need to know something, just ask.
     
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  3. Grandy

    Grandy Member

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  4. LV4-26

    LV4-26 Platinum Record

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  5. BENZZER

    BENZZER Member

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    mmm but whaT to do with the wierd wood construction?
     
  6. Infidel

    Infidel Producer

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    Use headphones until you get a bigger budget. Use a real time analizer if you can find one to rent. It will show you the nodes to eliminate or soften. Then build your own acoustic absorbers and diffusers with nice wood and fabric. Or hire someone to do it all for you, hence the bigger budget suggestion.
     
  7. Von_Steyr

    Von_Steyr Audiosexual

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    DIY rock wool panels with a gap between the wall and the panel. Cheap and most effective.
    Foam doest nothing for the low end.
     
  8. superliquidsunshine

    superliquidsunshine Audiosexual

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    So much knowledge, so little time.

    With the dimensions of this room it would be better to set up on the short wall and theoretically 38% the distance from that wall. In reality you should do some measurements http://realtraps.com/art_measuring.htm .If you don't want to do that put up homemade bass traps in all the vertices in the corners of the room, homemade to save you LOTS of money. And while your at it, put up more thinner panels at the primary reflection points and a few other places that you put up where you hear that you need them. Read up, there are tons of good sources with good information. Watch youtube videos on how to make traps and panels, there are many. Maybe @MMJ2017 will kick in with his circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one. He has great audio, graphic and video presentations.
     
  9. boomoperator

    boomoperator Producer

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    The Fachwerk isn’t that much of a problem. In theory maybe it is, but so are the windows, you can’t get rid of them.
    Start with DIY trapping, indeed, lot’s of examples on how to build them on YT. Another tip: Read and listen to everything German audio guy Jesco Lohan writes and talks about acoustics, you’ll learn a lot: http://www.acousticsinsider.com
     
  10. Fudsey Plange

    Fudsey Plange Rock Star

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    You'll need a chair.
     
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  11. saltwater

    saltwater Platinum Record

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    as far as i can see the wood is no problem, structures like this in metal are a nightmare but wood usually is fine.
    windows can be problematic, good, newer, heavy windows are game changers in terms of proofing.

    don't overthink it for now, before you spend money you have to try it out first

    place your stuff
    and listen

    later rent a proper mic and measure at your listening position and act accordingly

    randomly buying or building acoustic treatment usually leads nowhere and is either too much or to little, or just in the wrong place.


    im pretty sure a decent acoustic is achievable in this room
     
  12. Helter Skelter

    Helter Skelter Ultrasonic

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    You should check out Ethan Winers website realtraps.com, as mentioned by superliquidsunshine. I used the advice on that site to build the acoustics of my studio.

    For calculating speaker placement, listening position and reflexion points head over to
    http://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm

    This calculation is based on an idealised optimal listening position based on a room with no doors or windows (!). Most rooms also have at least doors but sometimes also windows. Since your room has both doors and windows, the idealised position might not be exactly at the theoretical optimal position. So you will have to measure, using the ideal as a starting point.

    If you don't have a measuring microphone and software, you could try asking what wall to pick out of the shorter walls, at Ethan Winers acoustics forum. But I wouldn't bother, just pick the one that is most convenient so you can walk out of the room without crawling under your desk ;-) . That is the short wall with one window to the right.

    I don't know if you should do something about the window, it makes the wall facing you asymmetrical, and might skew stereo imaging, I don't know. You should ask on the acoustics forum I mentioned;

    http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/forums/24/1/Ethan_Winer_The_Audio_Expert


    And as others have mentioned, build bass traps for as many corners as you can, tri-corners are especially effective (where two walls meet either ceiling or floor). Remember to use high density glass fiber/rock wool. If you just buy any old isolation with low density you are not making an effective bass trap. Also the type of fiber glass panels that have a thin aluminium foil on one side are more effective as bass traps then without.

    For acoustic panels at reflexion points you should have without aluminum foil.

    Here's a video of Ethan showing a small room with lots of treatment, getting very good acoustics.


    Hope this helps
     
  13. Jeffriezal

    Jeffriezal Ultrasonic

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    Your room dimension not much different from my home mixing room (W: 10ft L: 20ft H: 10ft).

    I have my left side of the wall with 2 windows, and I brick wall em all up, I get rid the window entirely. My ceiling, I turn it into a diamond shape. It is wiser to place speaker with you facing the short wall. So you can have deeper space behind you.

    I cover all my corner with a 4" Rockwool acoustic panel. And all my first reflection point with a 4" panel as well including behind of the speaker, my rear wall and a cloud on top of my desk. And the other 2nd and 3rd reflection point with 2" acoustic panel.

    With this dimension, you practically gonna facing a difficult SBIR issue on 100hz and below. I'm using a Sceptre S8, so a small triangle won't be working for me. I open it up to 5 feet distance. From my 38% position with the speaker 3ft off the front wall, I have a very strong dip null by -20db in the area 70hz - 90hz. But as I move my position and my speaker towards the front wall, the dip change to a higher frequency.

    My current best position now is 35% from the front wall, with my speaker close as it can be to the front wall, of coz with a panel behind it. With this setup, I only facing about -3db dip at 100hz. For now, I can settle for that as I rarely cut or boost that area in a mix.

    Now I'm saving money to build a diffuser for my rear wall. To see if it can enhance or improve the current dip issue.

    For your room, I am more concern about the height of your ceiling. Because the basic understanding is very simple, you don't want to place your speaker in a position of parallel with each ceiling, floor and wall. Afraid if your speaker will be in the centre of ceiling and floor. Withstand or either on a desk.

    With a very limited budget, DIY is the best choice to go for. All my panel I made it my self. I kinda a DIY type of person, the speaker stand, the desk. Even the room I build it with my dad. Always plan your progress, you can't have it all in one go with your budget. It is wiser to cover the corner with bass trap first. And from there, as you get to improve, you will learn on where to spend the money next. So you won't waste it on unnecessary investment.

    But if you don't like the challenges and be adventurous, I suggest you to find a better room, to begin with. After all, I don't know if this just a hobby for you or you make a living out of it and I don't know how far you willing to invest. It is best to focus one thing at a time.

    Mixing or Mastering?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  14. Infidel

    Infidel Producer

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    Fiberglass works too but might need thicker panels.
    Treat one wall but use a diffuser on opposite wall. Usually back wall has diffuser. Ceiling has diffuser. All others usually are absorptive. Floor is usually reflective Parkay flooring. Always RTA before and after any treatment to know whether you are acheiving your goals or creating more problems. It will take a while to get it right. It's all about the math, formulas and dimensions.
     
  15. spyfx

    spyfx Guest

    hello @BENZZER & friends :bow:
    some thoughts :

    My first priority would be to decouple the monitors from the speaker stands(if you have not already) with auralex mopads or Primacoustic monitor isolation pads(better choice),that way your bass response will become more focused & tighter.

    Bass traps also.

    Invest in good quality speaker balanced cables between your audio interface & monitors.

    You don't mention if you have the rokits 6 or vxt series 6...
    If you have the rokits 6 good thing that they are front ported,but i would not trust them 100% for making mixing/mastering accurate decisions.
    If you have the vxt series 6,then that is a different story...
    If you are satisfied with your current monitor set up,that is fine with me :wink:...
    but as an alternative consider this for a moment :bow: :
    you have 500€.... & could sell both your pair of monitors for another 500€.(don't know in what condition your monitors are)...
    so you have at least a 1000€. to invest to a better monitor system : you can get in the vxt series if you like krk,you can get some focals,some Neummans,some Genelecs or even Dynaudios,my point is with an upgraded monitor system you will have more depth,clarity & representation of your stereo image.Last invest in some good headphones too(i use focal spirit pro's & akg k712.

    Hope this info helps you & happy mixing/mastering :wink: :bow:
     
  16. score

    score Newbie

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    Machst du basslastige musik? Google ma bonedo- diy - breitbandabsorber. Ganz easy und optisch nich soschlimm. Ne günstigste ikea lösung... Auf den plattenschwingerteil kannste auch verzichten . Davon 9 stück bastel... Dann nachm "life and deadend" prinzip -googln- einfach drei links/rechts und vor dir aufbauen. Das andere hat der 38%dieter schon gesagt... Und dann : finally sonarworks 3 oder 4 installieren. Damit solltest du in deinem space zufrieden werden. Ach natürlich auch überm arbeitsplatz n breitband decken absorber.... Falls weitere fragen send n handynummer... Kein problem!
     
  17. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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  18. Plendix

    Plendix Kapellmeister

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    I would recommend basotect for diy panels. It is more exepensive than rockwool, but you get the same result with thinner panels. Plus it is way easier to use. It's already formed and basicly you just need to put some nice fabric over it, whatever your taste damands. there are a lot pre built panels using basotect, but i always ordered the plain raw material (comes in 50cmX100cm). Where you have wood you can just nail it to the wall or ceiling (nails with a large head). No dust, no lung problems. Use google for cheap retailers, price range is wide, although it's always the same (as bastotect is a BASF trademark)
     
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  19. superliquidsunshine

    superliquidsunshine Audiosexual

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I think I have found a superior product that beats out many if not all absorbers for sound absorption in studios. It is called Stratocell Whisper and is mainly being marketed for industrial sound damping and packaging applications. It is rigid, so can maintain it's shape and not bend and flop as softer foam or rock wool and so does not need a covering to keep dangerous fibers out of the lungs and eyes. It is humidity resistant and so does not breed mold, mildew or bacteria. It is finally available here in Switzerland but has been readily available in Germany, Austria, Italy, Australia, New Zealand and now I believe England. It has a Class A alpha w rating of 1.00, so is I think has a higher sound absorption than Basotec, and so I believe that the price/performance ratio beats Basotec.

    Besides of course the fact that it works to efficiently absorb sound, it maintains the integrity of it's shape and is light enough that putting it on a wall is as simple as banging a single narrow nail or even having it stand up by itself. It comes in black and white and can be cut chunky for bass traps (though I bet this might not be as cost effective as rock wool DIY). It comes in 20, 30, 40, 50 or 60mm thicknesses for panels. Depending on where you buy it, it could be cut to your size needs, or it seems that with the right tool one could cut smaller pieces.

    Although Stratocell might be light, highly acoustically absorbent, hold it's shape, flame retardant and other good things, it is still a foam type of product and is made from chemicals, namely polyethylene foam. The good news is that it is recyclable. They also fabricate a product called Stratocell® RC polyethylene foam which contains a minimum of 65% recycled resin content with the same level of performance as the regular Stratocell® polyethylene foam.

    When next I have cash to sink in, this is what I am buying to add coverage in my room.

    http://www.soundblock.com.au/sound-absorbers/stratocell-whisper
     
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