first part, should watch more Above&Beyond the Acoustic tour will be repeated this year

if u worry about emusicians

--
second part, voting to 10fingers

so a MIDI keyboard with auto macro assignable knobs, like MPK49, this case u can control the melody and the effects in the same time, need AL, Bitwig, or S1(but it has just introduced the macros so not as comfortable than the prev. ones), to this workflow

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

So far you seem to be better suited for a ban.
You should know better by now, this is not the first report I got on your post.
Avoid such posts in the future, or SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES!

Good idea, I think there's a thread exactly for that.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

Show me where I said that or just shut up.

I've never been on a forum where people constantly take everything out of context to please whatever suits them. Getting tired of it.

 

You are the one taking everything out of context. I was discussing sound design, not everything that you decided to add later about pitches, composition and structure.

PS I voted you down for your aggressive tone.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

That's why I gave up this particular discussion. I actually agree with a fair chunk of what he said thus far but not necessarily everything. So I commented on what I actually disagreed with and the entire comment gets taken out of context and only parts that actually work within his favor are elaborated upon further. Shame really, he seems like a knowledgeable guy who'd I enjoy discussing with some more if it wasn't for this part of having to turn his point into some kind of cold hard truth instead of just keeping it another (valuable) opinion.

 

Yes I agree, there should be a fair exchange of ideas with helpful and constructive advice, conducted in a friendly manner. I have given likes to his previous posts, so it's nothing personal.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

I didn't add anything later.

I was discussing the original topic, which is basically another chapter on foster911's journey into music. Then you came to counter something I said by quoting me and stating "Music is everything about sound design." and etc. So.. you quote me, you make a statement about it and I shouldn't have nothing to say about it?

I think there's a big difference between letting someone know of your preferences vs making closed/ultimate statements like yours, those aren't helpful at all and I know for a fact that they can screw with beginners minds for years causing stupid limitations/misconceptions.

 

If I remember well, you went through "musical experience, touring, success, etc" considerations just because I told someone to get a midi keyboard to make things easier/practical when he's trying out ideas and experimenting with theory. I almost felt like I told someone to try drugs.

The problem was that you read what I wrote with I biased mind, as if I was judging something or someone or even making assumptions about what one should do. If you re-read it, maybe you'll understand that I wasn't saying anything of what you thought I said.

 

Show me (copy/paste) just one example of me acting like this and I'll never post on this forum again.

 

Great advice

 

Okay, I'll give it one more go. I don't really understand where you're coming from since all I did in all of my posts in this thread was give my personal preferences. Not making any closed or ultimate statements. In fact, I actually think your statements came across as way more of a set way of doing things, I don't know. The only thing I was trying to say is that Foster991 does not have to become a virtuoso pianist just to being able to write a solid piece of music within his DAW. I may not have said that literally like that, but I think I heavily implied it within my posts. I completely agree that getting a MIDI keyboard is very useful. I also think playing around with pitches and what not is almost invaluable. Just hitting some keys on the keyboard, try some chords or little melodies or even just singular pitch changes really go a long way in understanding the building blocks of the music you are listening to and/or trying to make. All I'm saying is, when push comes to shove and he wants to get his melody down, he doesn't have to play it all in by hand and can chose to do it with his mouse perfectly well.

Now the way I read some of your posts was that he should really pick up an instrument and start learning to actually play that. I think it was somewhere around page 2 that I read that in one of your posts. And I personally think this is not all that necessary just to become a good songwriter. Would it help being an amazing piano player while trying to get your melodies down? Of course it would! It would speed up your workflow quite a bit opposed to using your standard computer stuff to draw in your melodies like (I assume) many of us do. But does he have to become the next Lang Lang just to be able to create nice harmonies and melodies within his DAW? In my humble opinion, absolutely not! He could still use his mouse and piano roll to just draw in his harmonies, melodies and what not. Using just the piano roll doesn't mean your music is less complex or less enjoyable to listen to. It's simply just the way he got it into his DAW and made sure it's ready for playback that differs. The only thing that heavily differs between these two methods is probably the human feel to it because people will make minor mistakes and this will give your music a human feel while PCs can do it all perfectly in time with your time signature. This is not even a strict positive or negative aspect depending on the style of music that you're making. But even if he can't play his particular melody but wants to give it a human feel while drawing it in with his mouse, there are plenty of ways to give it this human feel at a later point.

In fact, I think playing in all of your harmonies and melodies actually could limit his musical capabilities because he may not have the hand-eye coordination and skills on the piano to play what he actually wants to have inside his piece of music. But our DAW can be the best piano player in the entire world if we want it to. All we have to do is tell it what to play and when to do that. Basically, the sky is the limit when you leave the playing up to the computer opposed to your actual skill ceiling and physical limits. So to just clarify my point a little to make sure I can't make it any more clear than this and hope we can find some common ground here. Do I think Foster991 should buy some kind of MIDI keyboard and play around with it a little? Yeah, that would probably really speed up his learning curve and get him where he wants to go a lot faster. Do I think he should practice it rigorously for several months or even years just so he can actually play all of the different harmonies or melodies he may have in his head? No, I think he can just use his mouse if he wants to when he needs to get his musical piece down into his DAW. The discussion here is more about workflow and less about having actual musical understanding if you ask me. I usually just fiddle around on my MIDI keyboard and see what I like the sound of. When I have a rough idea, I open up the piano roll inside Ableton and actually write it in with my mouse. Because I'm not Lang Lang, I'm not even a good piano player whatsoever. And since I like (near) perfection, I think it's better to leave the actual playing up to my computer because it's a lot better and more accurate at it.

Just remember: the best football player in the world could very well make a horrible coach and just like that, the best coach in the world can have horrible skills once the ball is at his feet and still perform his job perfectly well.

P.S: Can you please combine your replies into a single post instead of following them up constantly? It's really annoying having to read several posts by the same person in succession. It clutters the topic and I think it's even against forum policy if I'm not completely mistaken. They gave us an "Edit" button for a good reason.

 

You basically just said the same I've been saying. You only added the hipothesis of me telling foster911 to "play actual songs".... but no, you can't find me saying anything like that anywhere, in fact you can find the opposite in one of my answers to you.

If I use the edit button, people complain. If I don't use it, people complain. Awesome.

Edit: I write on the piano roll too instead of playing most of the stuff but I don't really see how that's helpful information/"advice" to what foster911 wants to accomplish. I could tell him that I can write staff and tab also.. don't see that helping either to the subject at hand.

 

I don't understand some people who post replies here....That's amazing!!!
Rather than telling theory on the way to follow for not do any error on learning to compose music,rather than telling to foster911 that he won't never be a good musician because he learns the theory and he doesn't have the musical ear,these peoples would be more usefull if they told to foster911 how they were able to do nice tracks.
I agree producin' a beautiful track like a pro is a very long and hard work,and that needs passion and perseverance.For me,some years ago,I bought Yamaha,Korg grooveboxes and later a computer,and I started to make music just with my feeling,without any musical skill...
That said,I learnt a lot of things and techniques during many hours,nights, years,and I did a lot of bad things too...At the moment I started to read and learn lessons on the theory, I improved like I never thought it was possible !
I learnt of my experience that theory is essential,like your own work,mistakes,and first,your interest.That's sure,make a Deadmau5 track(for example) without hard work is a dream !!!
To make music is not a game,it's a serious work.Day by day you learn another tip.Day by day you become better.
If you don't learn theory,you'll waste a lot of time,surely years...Unless you are a genius for the music,if at all...

 

You said "Looking from a pure musical standpoint and the way in which the musical material is worked (excluding sound design)"

As the topic title reads: Arrangement in the electronic musics, it is my opinion that when it comes to arranging music, sound design is a most important element, it is what a producer/arranger does. Yet you try to exclude it from the conversation.

 

The topic reads that but the conversation isn't just the title, or is it? Now you've quoted me again and it looks like you still don't get what "Looking from a pure musical standpoint...(excluding sound design)" is supposed to mean in the context. At least this time you added "it is my opinion".

 

I guess maybe he has been following Foster991's ways on this forum for a longer time and has more history with the person. I think sound design and arrangement are unmistakably related to each other. But at the same time, everything is when you're creating your very own piece of music from scratch. Maybe the OP has been trying to do too much at the same time and divided his attention too much which turned into him not getting anything done really. I think if he (or anyone new to music production) would read this thread, there is lots of good advice in there which will get you into the right direction. But I always tell everyone to stay alert and critical about everything you read. Anyone and everyone can give you wrong advice, even professionals that are in the music industry for decades. The most valuable asset you will always have is your own brain and senses so don't forget to use those.

To Kouros, I'm happy we were able to find some common ground. It seems we may have just been talking besides each other and not understanding what each other actually meant? I just thought you meant he needed to spend several months or even years practicing an instrument just to be able to write pieces of music within his DAW. You did tell him to start practicing an instruments somewhere on page 2 of this thread. But I think there is a big difference between fiddling around with some scales, chords and small melodies and actually practicing to play some kind of musical instrument. Because actually practicing the instruments encapsulates a lot more than simply fooling around with some scales and chords. While I think that's all that is really necessary to eventually gain the knowledge to be able to write great pieces of music. But from your latest point, it seems like we actually agree (somewhat) so that's nice. No more confusion for Foster991 I suppose.

 

The topic seems to have morphed into the more broader "how to write and produce EDM" whereas I thought the topic was supposed to be about arrangement and in particular the workflow of arrangement. The sound design and relevant music theory for melodies/chord progressions should have been already been sorted out before you get to this part shouldn't they?

 

It's not "maybe", it's THAT FOR SURE.. and that's why I keep busting his balls because he has the drive and interest but is overwhelmed with info.. and converting very little info into knowledge.

I never told him to play songs on instruments, I don't even play actual songs on keyboards and in fact I've been telling him that piano roll is a perfectly fine tool that provides more depth and control than traditional staff notation.

 

Yeah but... someone's got to tell him that (more than once..) and that's why the topic shifted.

 

Not really In the real world a producer/arranger will pull your song to bits and add/change parts and sounds. Back in the day, they used to spend 3 days just getting the the kick and the snare to sound right

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2015