Are plug-in manufacturers running out of ideas?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by BEAT16, Apr 9, 2022.

  1. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Are plug-in manufacturers running out of ideas?
    Today at 8:00 a.m from Dirk Behrens | Estimated reading time: 5 minutes

    Anyone who has been dealing with music production on the computer and the world of plug-ins for a while has certainly wondered at one time or another whether there is still much room for innovation. Because honestly, who needs thirty different delays, equalizers, reverbs or the umpteenth wavetable synthesizer? And there are already more than enough emulations of all the classics. Are the developers running out of ideas?


    In the beginning everything is new

    Clearly, at the beginning everything is new. In the case of plug-ins, for example, this is the moment when they became feasible in the first place. In the course of the 90s, computers developed into multimedia machines that were suddenly able to handle graphics and sound easily. Long-established manufacturers such as Steinberg or Emagic transformed sequencer software into an entire digital audio workstation that could not only handle MIDI, but also audio material. And then a unified software interface appeared with VST , which increasingly expanded these DAWs with virtual instruments and effects .

    Today, DAWs are the common standard in music production, but doing without them (keyword DAWless) almost seems like an anachronistic trend. While at the beginning of music production with software the discussions about the sound quality were still very energetic, it is no longer surprising when a song or dance track is created (almost) entirely on the computer - in the studio or at home.

    With the advent of music software, emulation, hard disk recording (what a word!) and of course plug-ins , not only new possibilities emerged, but also a new market. Because the technical innovations ensured a liberalization that made it possible for "mere mortals" to produce music on their own without investing a fortune. This also meant that the number of potential customers suddenly increased.


    Are plug-in manufacturers running out of ideas?

    The market does not allow standstill, so new products are constantly coming out or old ones are being maintained and updated. In addition, there are always new manufacturers who want to get involved. So it shouldn't really come as a surprise if, for this reason, the market becomes increasingly saturated and things repeat themselves.

    And yes, it is certainly not easy to develop fresh ideas. Equalizers , for example, are looking more and more similar in the plug-in world because, in essence, they have achieved the perfect balance of function and usability . Effects and synthesizers are hard to come up with big innovations, because somewhere the concepts exhaust themselves.


    Technical advances require updates

    Nevertheless, there is enough room for something "new"
    . And for several reasons. One driving force is the permanent technical development . The processors are getting faster and that means more CPU power . Plugins can do even more. This leads, for example, to better emulation of analogue properties, more detail and more complex algorithms. We are currently seeing that so-called “artifical intelligence” techniques are being used more and more frequently in software. This creates opportunities that were unimaginable just a few years ago.

    New processors and new operating systems also mean that software becomes "obsolete". Then either updates or new developments are needed . We are currently experiencing this at Apple with the switch from Intel to the newsilicon processors. Plug-ins then become legacy software , which is replaced by new versions (and mostly has to be bought new). But that also has the positive side effect that some manufacturers are suddenly giving away a whole range of products, as happened recently with Audio Damage. If you are still using an older OS, you can be happy.

    The progress is not only noticeable in CPUs, but also in other areas. Multi-channel audio and immersive audio are good examples. Plug-ins are constantly being released that deal with emulating studio environments on headphones. And some recent releases introduce multi-channel support to the already saturated effects plug-in market.


    Evolution instead of innovation?

    Plugins are also becoming more specialized
    . Not only does this mean that there is now software that does a single job (like eliminating background noise) but also caters directly to individual musical styles. You want a certain EDM sound or an "under water" sound? There you go, here is the right plug-in! Trends and styles always promote suitable products.

    Many things that initially appear innovative are often just a combination of old ideas . This leads to something like one-knob effects , which carry out a whole series of processes in a well-dosed manner with a turn of the knob. Or exactly the opposite, if, for example, multi-band distortion is crossed with modulation and all parameters can be precisely adjusted. Personally, I still see a lot of future potential in the “ remix ” of several concepts.


    The same but different

    And what we must not forget: Programming is art! Take three reverb plug-ins and they all have a different sound. Especially with effects, I generally notice this again and again. That's why it's also legitimate to use your own approach, a little trick or perhaps a new method to develop synthesizers or effects that actually already exist in sufficient numbers. Of course, that doesn't automatically mean that every new product sounds better than "older" products.


    What do you mean?

    Is it even "problematic" if innovations are to be looked for with a magnifying glass? When it comes to music, films, books or other cultural and consumer goods, we don't make a big deal out of the fact that many ideas are repeated over and over again.

    What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you feel a certain stagnation in the plugin development or do you think that a lot of new things are happening right now? Which plugins have surprised you lately?

    Source / German: www.gearnews.de/gehen-plug-in-herstellern-so-langsam-die-ideen-aus/
    https://www-gearnews-de.translate.g...l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp
     
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  3. EEOC

    EEOC Ultrasonic

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    They had no idea from the beginning. It has been nearly 25 years since the introduction of the VST SDK, and many people have wasted their lives developing and using these tools.

    The path of music changed since then and set foot on the path of destruction. Unfortunately, this path is irreversible and no one can do anything.
     
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  4. disconisco

    disconisco Member

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    Personally, i have some 15+ years of experience in mixing and i find myself using stock plugins almost all the time. Working with Sequoia and Ableton in a hybrid setup. Apart for some reverb plugins and FF ProQ3, i really dont need anything else. It has become more of a hype thing, oh you gotta have this or without this it does not sound analog. And yes, they are just rehashing old ideas, nothing new, nothing revolutionary.
     
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  5. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Guest

    You are more likely to see a new idea from someone nobody has ever heard of in my opinion.

    Before the Internet, plugins, music, art and inventions of any kind all came out through a relatively defined set of channels. Creativity or something new was more obvious then because of those channels.
    Now with most of the world online, any developer, creator, inventor writer with Internet access can release anything. In some areas the quality has gone up and in some perhaps nothing has changed.
    So if something new is actually invented, if it does not reach enough people it is quite feasible that most of the world might never hear of it due to Internet overload.

    I do not believe it is possible to run out of ideas if any person's focus is to seek, search and create. These days, that does not make money and nobody pays anyone for doing it unless they're employed in a corporate R&D department and they own none of their ideas then anyway. Also, if it is corporate, their ideas are contracted as intellectual property and many might never see the light of day, if it does not fit with the corporate vision.
     
  6. Vader

    Vader Platinum Record

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    There's still space to create amazing new plugins and FX. The time needed and the resources are another thing, specially if after all that you see them in "free" places just after 1 day or 1 week
     
  7. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    There is a Plugin, in the North Atlantic....
     
  8. dia manu

    dia manu Producer

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    not out of ideas out of a market. remember the early days of waves, the developers were very very well payed. they hired the best in the business. and the prices reflected that. also the industry was at a different point in time.
    now its a hobbyist market with hobbyist bling bling guis.
     
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  9. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    Maybe it just takes a long time to discover new problems to fix; because they haven't made the plugin that can detect them yet.
     
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  10. Backtired

    Backtired Audiosexual

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    Shame... I remember when the same happened to painting, when painters found out they couldn't discover new colors anymore and were limited only by those who already existed.
    Surely, the death of music is approaching...
     
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  11. Arabian_jesus

    Arabian_jesus Audiosexual

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    I still feel like there's a steady progression in the plug-in/DAW technology. Yes, most new plug-ins are just repeating the same old ideas, but it's the same thing with music, movies, games etc. You can't expect every new developer to reinvent the wheel with their first release, they need to start somewhere and that usually means creating their own takes on classic ideas/designs. There are ofc established developers that have been doing DSP since the beginning that are still just doing the same thing over and over (Waves for example) but they will probably fade into obscurity eventually, like many others have done.

    The last couple of years we have seen tons of A.I based plug-ins, and ARA2 was IMO a big step forward in terms of workflow. There might not be much more you can invent to get better digital audio fidelity, but there certainly is a lot more you can do for a better and easier workflow, as well as more experimental sound design software. Algorithms created with machine/deep-learning is something that's not really new, but we can actually use them now without having a super computer to run them on. They also sound closer to analog hardware than most conventional circuit modelling algos.
     
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  12. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    The problem is that there are many small companies whose staff salaries do not come from a research budget. They don't have the money to do research. Sometimes something new happens like Celemony - Melodyne for example. It has been an extraordinary achievement of one person.
    I would like to have stable software, without bugs and not never ending updates...!

    If one would found a company that is not profit-oriented and works without profits, better plugins would also come out.

    An example:
    The MP3 format was developed from 1982 onwards under the direction of Hans-Georg Musmann by a group led by Karlheinz Brandenburg at the Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits (IIS) in Erlangen and at the Friedrich-Alexander University Erlangen-Nuremberg in cooperation with AT&T Bell Labs and Thomson.
     
  13. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

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    Well look around what kind of products are out there competiting with your DSP idea. So after looking around, you might think, wow thats a cool idea, i will add this to my concept, so new combinations are born that way.
    Surprisingly indeed a lot of stuff has already been done in terms of DSP design and new ideas are indeed rare.

    Then there is also the balance between what is possible in a certain timeframe as coming up with the concept, coding it and bugfixing it can take ages and even if you think - hey there are already all bugs fixed, if you add new code, new bugs just grow like bambus or the new ideas interact weird with the already bugfixed code. :deep_facepalm::wtf:

    Its asthonishing that Melodyne was really done as one person project? Its quite a complicated idea, which works so awsome and shaped the industry.

    Or if you take things like Cycling74's Max, which is super complex and you can create all kinds of things with it and it cretainly grow over a longer timeframe - we are talking 1985 here, that is 37 years and they tried a lot around with different product ideas, back intograting things into Max again after it was a separate product, they got acquired by Ableton in 2017, but still sort of operate as self-organized company, nothing has really changed. I have not found anything, which could replace Max, i know there is pure data, which is free, but the GUI design is super outdated and the whole handling feels very 90s if not even older. And i doubt Cycling74 is out of ideas what to add to Max.
    There is maybe even more such companies out there ...

    There is a certain trend when it comes to new plugins, which a handful companies seem to follow or they got inspired by itself? I am not sure how high the information torrent is between companies? Or if even they sometimes communicate with each other?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
  14. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    TAL-NoiseMaker 5 released 01.08.2021 -
    After more than ten years it was time to release a bigger update for our free TAL-NoiseMaker plugin.
    The update includes following:
    • Preset browser.
    • Updated clean vector UI.
    • Scalable UI.
    • Backward compatible. No sound changes.
    • A lot of changes under the hood to keep it maintainable.
    https://tal-software.com

    It was also great that the Vember Audio Surge was saved and improved.

    Surge is a bit of a legendary synth in the open-source world and regularly makes our best free synth lists.

    The Surge Synth Team refers to themselves as “open-source enthusiasts who randomly assembled to work on the Surge synthesizer.” I like that description; it kind of makes them sound like some open-source avengers.

    The previous developers, Vember Audio, still host an archive of prior versions on their website.
    https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2022/01/19/surge-xt/
    https://surge-synthesizer.github.io
     
  15. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

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    Surge is a great example. I remember trying it back 2008 - didnt like it to much, came a lot of times back to it, then it was obvious Vember Audio just kinda died as companies and then well Surge was free, then also their sampler plugin. And so far Surge has a constant progress, with new plugin formats, GUI improvements, other very cool additions.

    Well as small and also big company if you do DSP design and everything connected with releasing and selling a plugin, you have to face it, that in the end all the time spend has to be worth it to earn money back you have invested (work hours, power, ), thats how it works, so sometimes you can create the best plugin in the world, but have to write things on a bigger agenda for the future.

    Not many small audio plugin companies survive this: I mean i remember Amaranth Audio, they released a very cool looking, very different synth, they had so many cool ideas and plan for the futures. Then process was put on hold and now it looks like the founder and only owner of Amaranth Audio has abandoned his projects and also his company without further notice.
     
  16. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    When the big players in the music scene can't think of anything else, they simply buy a company or the know-how to do it.
    See Camel Audio Alchemy was bought out to the detriment of the users.
    There are many plug-ins that still exist as 32 bit, but never have the chance to be developed further. It is too cost-intensive and time-consuming. As ArticStorm said, you have to pay your rent and put bread on the table.

    You should set up a fundraising association to save old plugins. After all, we still have an open-source movement and team R2R to save some plugins over time.
     
  17. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

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    Well the biggest problem is probably, when these old plugins you are talking are code or created with SynthEdit or Flowstone, its a closed enviroment and when both go not MacOS or introduce new formats and bit versions, you are prisoned in that system and its maybe unlikely - you will undergo a full rewrite if the plugin you have created long time ago.

    So i guess JUCE seems to be a very good plattform as it offers so many formats, VST2/3 - 64bit, standalone, iOS and android - i am not even sure if you could add LV2 format of other formats?
    And it has a constant improved code with new features, bugfixes and also a great documentation.

    Another story is Ohmforce and their DAW, which never happened and since then Ohmforce really had a hard time as company only to return last year with a rewrite of Ohmboyz as Infinity.
    Sometimes project can also be to big and make the life very hard.
     
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  18. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    The company Mastrcode Music, a one man company, had released the T-Force Alpha Plus version 1.5.2 VST, however he had serious programming errors, he told me by email that it would take longer to find the error than to make a new plugin.

    So he started to rewrite a plugin, Mastrcode Music - T-Force - Zenith Beta 3 VSTi, it is in the beta phase also free to download at his Facebook account, I made a soundbank for it. You can see on Facebook how he worked on it, it looked promising, but then he stopped everything. There is also no message why and why not. https://www.facebook.com/MastrcodeMusic?_rdc=1&_rdr

    You sometimes see people fail, companies go down the drain and that's a very big problem. It's almost always due to a lack of funds, because most people only know the system, they don't even have the idea that it can be done differently.
     
  20. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    This synth was announced in a big way and has not been released until today:
    Peter Gorges / Axel Hartmann / Peter Grandl

    BABYLON FREEWARE SYNTHESIZER, EIN AMAZONA.DE-COMUNITY-PROJEKT
    www.amazona.de/babylon-freeware-synthesizer-ein-amazona-de-comunity-projekt/
    FREEWARE-SYNTHESIZER BABYLON: STEP 2 – KONZEPT & FEATURES
    www.amazona.de/freeware-synthesizer-babylon-step-2-konzept-features/
    FREEWARE SYNTHESIZER BABYLON: RUNDE 3 – ARCHITEKTUR
    www.amazona.de/freeware-synthesizer-babylon-runde-3-architektur/
     
  21. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

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    This reminds me on Neuron VST, which had both on MacOS and Windows memory leaks, means it was dumping the Memory full with stuff until in the end the DAW crashed and the OS.
    MacOS saw a rerelease as fixed version, but windows was never fixed.

    The idea of the Neuron synths, was actual pretty cool for its time - 2004, but well Hartmanns company just vanished? I didnt find any information about that, which further describe the reasons for the project to fail.

    Thanks for the 3 links, looks very good and also gives some ideas how to come up with architecture, concept and progress.

    My guess is that, at some point it couldnt be found an agreement how to move forward?

    Damn Hartmanns GUI concept looks stunning.
    Well the question is did he use github? Because with it you can find out how and were bugs entered the code, it is very helpful in finding bugs. I was working on a bigger python project, which at some part just crashed due to a critical error in the code. So i bisect the git commits for a week and it was possible to pindown the last working commit and the first commit, which introduced the bug. It was in the end possible to fix that bug and get the python code project working again. But it taught me the lesson to decoument code with git no matter how small the code addition is.

    Git is revolutional idea to record changes to a project/codebase. Its is maybe difficult to use it with Synthedit or Flowstone? Where you dont have additional control over the inner works of some building blocks?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
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