Are Musical Instruments Badly Designed?

Discussion in 'Music' started by black.afrika.zulu.x, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. black.afrika.zulu.x

    black.afrika.zulu.x Producer

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    Why are guitars and pianos so inefficient in quickly capturing musical ideas--without a 20 year learning curve?
     
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  3. flyingsleeves

    flyingsleeves Producer

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    The instruments are fine. The problem is that we humans need 20 years of practice in order to master something. It is us who are inefficient.
     
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  4. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    If you were an oak tree, 20 years of doing that would be extraordinary. Let alone getting good at it. Count your blessings? It could be worse? You could be a banana.




    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  5. Riot7

    Riot7 Producer

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    First, they aren't. And even if you argue that they are, it has very little to do with inherent flaws in the design of guitars or pianos. Unless you consider "not plugging directly into my brain" an inherit design flaw of guitars and keyboards.

    Overall, many instruments however are actually quite badly designed. If you gave a smart modern engineer a blank piece of graph paper (or an empty autocad project) and asked him to design "a guitar", he would never in a million years design a fucking stratocaster. You know, with the insane square neck joint and all. Or the bridge. Or that jack connection. Or those tuning pegs. Or non-fanned frets. Or passive electronics etc. etc. A keyboard would look quite different too.

    But there's so much historical baggage that innovative and objectively better designs are often frowned upon.
     
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  6. phloopy

    phloopy Audiosexual

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    Rage against the music instruments :rofl:
     
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  7. ddoctor

    ddoctor Kapellmeister

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    Electromusicians complaining against music again.
     
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  8. thecastermaster

    thecastermaster Member

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    Yes, mastering an instrument takes longer than learning how to make beats... Sorry
     
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  9. superliquidsunshine

    superliquidsunshine Audiosexual

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    They aren't inefficient in the least. You have an idea, grab the nearest instrument, whatever it is, and play what is in your body and soul. Done. A human must first learn to support its head before it can roll over, sit upright without support, walk, run...and to learn at least one of the two musical instruments (amongst all the others) you listed in order to capture a musical idea. In fact, two sticks can sometimes be enough. Then there is the voice, which most of us have, in order to turn an idea into vibrating air which can either be remembered, written down in many forms or recorded on various mediums.

    I took the bait and now feel the phoole.
     
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  10. black.afrika.zulu.x

    black.afrika.zulu.x Producer

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    Mimic a beatbox on acoustic drums; or a melody you just hummed on a piano is complicated. Don't you agree? And, arguably, more complicated than it should be. I guess people have a sentimental attachment to the learning process...and the craftsmanship of the instrument...forgetting that by the time they've mastered it, they're at the tail end of their youthful, creative peak.

    Don't you think?
     
  11. electriclash

    electriclash Rock Star

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    [​IMG]?

    work on your ear? just put up a piano and pick out melodies from the radio
     
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  12. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    Wot ? Like really ? Hmmm.... Let's ask these guys how long did it take them to master the guitar:



    PS: About 28 yrs ago i saw the amazing Paco De Lucia in a solo performance. Around the middle of his live show he introduced a -nameless to me- young guitar player that was no more than 15 yo. Point is, they played 3 or 4 songs together and to everyone's surprise noone could tell who played what because the kid played almost exactly as Paco lol.
    I have been a musician for about 40 yrs now and a professional for 35 yrs. I 've said it many times in this forum : You can't beat talent bro. And those who have it surely don't need 20 yrs. For the talented in music people, about 2 yrs is all it takes. The rest is just refinement and detail.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  13. mercurysoto

    mercurysoto Audiosexual

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    Trust me. My Fender American Standard Jazz Bass is flawlessly designed, or at least, its flaws appeal to me.

    I don't. Mastering a musical instrument is the process of learning to be better at music: more organized, less conscious of the physicality of placing fingers, more sensitive to nuances in music, more informed of the inner workings of music, and seveal more of these things. Creativity gets fueled as you get a better instrumentalist. Of course, some musicians become better copyists and others will be more open to experimentation. Yet others will record the beats that the non-musicians will abuse to create their tracks.

    Saying that the mastery of an instrument happens after one's creative juice dries up is saying that only young people are creative. Tell that to Paul McCartney. Then car racers should be in their late teens to become world racers. Otherwise, it's a loss. :dunno:
     
  14. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Platinum Record

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    EASY ANSWER:

    Anything that is worthwhile knowing and becoming good at will not be easy. If it was, life would not only be boring, nothing gained in skill would be appreciated by anyone.
     
  15. huschiwuschi

    huschiwuschi Platinum Record

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    Yeah and mastering to make a beat takes longer than learning to make a beat
     
  16. superliquidsunshine

    superliquidsunshine Audiosexual

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    I only think you be trippin', Bro. Talking about being sentimentality attached to the learning process? Unless one is born into the body and soul of a sea turtle, hatching on a moonlit beach, finding your way to the ocean and inherently knowing how to survive on your own based on some kind of genetic memory would preclude one from actually learning. But then, as turtles we probably wouldn't be tossing this idea around. And about being sentimental about the craftsmanship of an instrument, a tenderness or a feeling of nostalgia, unless you have actually spent the time to have learned an instrument and cherished each moment playing one, you will never have the joy of knowing that the person or team of craftsmen who masterly created a fine instrument for you heartfeltedly cherished the knowledge that their effort would afford you the opportunity to create things that only could have come in from the aethers by way of that conduit of creation.

    At the end of the youthful creative peak begins the middle years creative cressendo. After all that youthful exuberance something makes way for more mature and perhaps differently inspired, thoughtful ideas of composition.

    You be trippin', alrighty! Learn an instrument and then come back to express your feelings.

    Are you experienced, have you ever been experienced?
     
  17. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    the instruments are reliable and give you great results every time.
    what you are asking about is each individual human beings capacity to have knowledge of music and physical ability to produce it the way an instrument really works in reality.
    so you can see the topic is about people and if they can mechanically move their bodies a certain way, combined with can they take an idea in their mind and using knowledge of music and that instrument perform what is in their mind.
    whatever place a person level and ability is at currently, by thinking of these 2 aspects, a person can improve on these 2 things at will with concentration focus and effort.

    imagine if every person that existed instantly thought of a song in head and it just came out perfectly.
    would society value music at all in any way?(10 billion virtuosos......) nobody would think music was anything special.

    however, whatever place you are at right this second, you can work on those 2 things (knowledge of music and instrument) and (mechanic movement of body to play instrument), over time you can develop these things as much as you are willing to put the work in.
     
  18. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    "Mimic a beatbox on acoustic drums"

    you have it in reverse a BEATBOX is mimicking a drumbeat(from drumkit) with the voice.


    "or a melody you just hummed on a piano is complicated."

    how so?.............. there are 12 notes homie.

    "And, arguably, more complicated than it should be."

    how so?

    is learning how to speak you native language more complicated that it should be ? (.... for a 2 week old infant?)

    "I guess people have a sentimental attachment to the learning process...and the craftsmanship of the instrument..."

    nah, people have a sentiment toward everything and anything at all.

    "forgetting that by the time they've mastered it, they're at the tail end of their youthful, creative peak."

    see YOU just expressed a sentiment toward YOUTH.

    you have a bizzarre outlook about "mastering" things.

    everything in reality requires effort to accomplish whether gaining knowledge, making money, learning, getting good at sex, cooking great food anything and everything in reality requires a person dedicating to gain knowledge and learning and perfecting their skills and ability.
    YOU are the one placing sentiment toward some weird youth idea. wisdom knowledge skill and ability comes with age.
    there is only one good thing i can think about youth and that is surface level superficial beauty. thats it.

    "
    youthful, creative peak.""

    what is that?

    what is a creative peak and how does it connect to youth in any way?


    creativity is putting known variables together in new ways to get a new formulation of a already existing thing.



    i challenge you to find me 1 single creative example of something "new"
    the criteria is it cannot be a reformulation of something pre-existing.

     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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