Anyone using Dolby Atmos?

Discussion in 'Software' started by Bunford, Apr 24, 2017.

  1. RedThresh

    RedThresh Producer

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    141
    Location:
    ITB
    To me the only thing blocking

    We were talking about commerical worldwide release and spreading of 3D audio in music industry. It does not exist. The Binaural thingy is under the underground... But it'll come one day, it has to be. Brand music won't stay 2D forever. Nice reddit though
     
  2. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Messages:
    3,170
    Likes Received:
    1,941
    Location:
    Heart of Europe
    "Now that Windows 10s Creators Update has integrated Dolby Atmos into Windows, is anybody using this to mix/make music?

    I am only asking as I know it has a headphone format which actually sounds pretty good, but I have only tried it through Sonarworks into my Audio Technica M50Xs so far. Not sure howit translates to stereo monitor speakers.

    Just wondering if it adds anything in terms of creative mixing music in a 7.1 space at all? I know you could do this anyway, but seeing that "3D sound" is the whole point of Dolby Atmos, just wondering if anyone is making use of it in this way or if there's any point?"


    to be honest, I'd say Dolby Atmos is useless technology,
    at first, it heavily relies on proprietary tech and the processing is done during playback (unlike casual surround formats, which are basically finalized mastered tracks dedicated to static speaker layout setup),
    huge advantage of "scalability" is indeed impressive, but the more speakers you have, the more powerful processing is required and more precisely treated room acoustics need to be,
    crucial problem of Atmos is that even with flawless room, and million of speakers, only few places in room will provide "perfect" sound experience - therefore using such tech in large rooms such as cinemas, theatres, concert halls etc.. would NOT provide equal audiophile-grade experience for every visitor,

    3D audio is big deal, biggest difference is that as a mixing/mastering engineer you cannot make use of masking to hide imperfections,
    I can see future in headphone-based 3D audio, because only headphones can provide direct connection with ears, not influenced by room/space you're listening in, and there are 2 possible paths to be followed:
    1) binaural audio - "static" headphone-bound stereo track, taking into account ear distance to calculate phases to provide very realistic perception of full 3-dimensional space, this is done completely during production, and can be fairly easily mixed, and even broadcasted (as it requires just a basic stereo stream)
    2) position-based audio - head/ears position-bound track, dynamically taking into account head/ears orientation/position relative to sound sources, realtime, to provide very realistic simulation of for ex. desk monitors, musicians on stage etc.., nowadays I'd say Waves Nx technology has gone furthest yet, this is done during playback and so again requires some processing power (but hopefully much less than Atmos),

    as a musician and sound guy, I'd say any 3D audio makes very little sense to use in music, because people are not used to consume music such way,
    sure 3D audio can get into movies (therefore scenic music maybe), drama, maybe even discussion or so, but it really depends on industry finding and setting listening standard to follow, else it will all remain in closed environments developed by each company a bit different, requiring bit different gear and that will piss customers off
     
  3. junh1024

    junh1024 Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,396
    Likes Received:
    432
    Let's set the terminology straight.

    1D = stereo (width)
    2D = surround (width, depth)
    3D = surround with height (width, depth, height).

    Agree?


    If you mean stereo = 2D, stereo is 1D, because there's only 1 axis (left-right)

    You got any better ideas for Dolby, for spatial 3D for speaker technology for BD?

    Atmos targets cinema, and also home theatre ( https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html ) , but also offers headphone downmixes.

    Chances, are you already know at least 1 person with a surround home theatre setup.

    https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/speaker-setup-guides/

    Atmos can only scale to ~35 for home & ~64 speakers for cinema.

    It does. 2 records in 3D surround for speakers (with height) off the top off my head

    Prometheus Atmos & Mondo Diao Aelita, but there are HUNDREDS in surround

    http://www.surrounddiscography.com/dvdaudio/dvdaudio.htm
    http://www.surrounddiscography.com/sacd/sacddisc.htm

    Actually, the more speakers you have, the larger the sweet spot is. Which is why theatres have surround arrays and duplicate speakers a lot.

    It's not the only head-tracking, nor only HRTF implementation there is.

    -It isn't 7.1
    -It doesn;t do 3D, only 2D
    -You can't swap the HRIRs

    See



    Also, audio processing is relatively light, compared to 3D graphics processing. The marketing only makes you think it's very heavy.

    It is exactly fitting for use in music, because a movie is only loud about half the time, whereas in music it's loud almost all the time, making better use of speakers.

    I encourage you to read http://www.tacet.de/main/seite1.php?language=en&filename=trss.php&layout=dvd

    Proprietary technologies are only required for object-based audio because the bitstream is bound to the implementation. There's also the usual vendor lock-in at play.


    No-one's complaining when the spatialization is vastly improved. You can apply the same techniques such as reverb as in 1D stereo to 3D surround with height. Or maybe you need to become a better mixer.

    90+% of people replying/complaining have never mixed in 3D or 2D surround, nor done audio programming, nor know atmos well. I have done all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  4. RedThresh

    RedThresh Producer

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    141
    Location:
    ITB

    We were speaking about 3D sound REALLY used, like same amount of sellings and products than stereo ones. It's just not the case at this moment! Despite your links pointing out 2 out of 425534536472345 stereo. 5.1/7.1 sellings must be like 1% of commercial sells. But it's true it can only grow and it will, main problem is just that 5.1/7.1 systems aren't purchased by average customer, they buy stereo ones. Same problem we had when it was mono and stereo was breaking in. So I guess we will see the same thing for 3D audio but it might (it is) be slow.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  5. junh1024

    junh1024 Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,396
    Likes Received:
    432
  6. junh1024

    junh1024 Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,396
    Likes Received:
    432
    Reread my post, i reedited it.

    People also forget that sometimes music is remixed into surround for movies, which is nice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  7. Moogerfooger

    Moogerfooger Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    756
    Nope. Im pretty well versed in EDM production, mixing and multiple channel audio formats and standards. The reality is putting Atmos mixed tracks into the consumer market is silly. If a business wants to lose a bunch of money than it's a great idea. I don't see too many raves being held at Regal cinemas do you? With that said. I don't think it's dumb to experiment to make Atmos mixes. It would actually be pretty cool if there were art exhibits or concerts made specifically for that kind of delivery and experience. But for the average consumer, there isn't much of a way to take that experience home at the time of this writing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  8. RedThresh

    RedThresh Producer

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    141
    Location:
    ITB
    Now I can't disagree with you. Like many of us I hope I'll be there to see it :bow:
     
  9. Legotron

    Legotron Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,841
    Location:
    Hyperborea
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  10. junh1024

    junh1024 Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,396
    Likes Received:
    432
    Have you been reading about atmos for home cinema or atmos/binaural for headphones?
     
  11. RedThresh

    RedThresh Producer

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    141
    Location:
    ITB

    That's like 0.5% of market for binaural and maybe 5% for home cinema...
     
  12. Moogerfooger

    Moogerfooger Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    756
    And I imagine 98% of that 5% have wives that are like "hell no you ain't doing that to the living room".
     
Loading...
Loading...