I am out. Don't try to argue with stupid. Sorry. :-((

 

That is exactly what I said.

Humans, at present, can't hear digital data fluxes, we need a speaker (or whatever) to convert it in the analog realm, the physical place where we are immersed without any possibility to escape.

 

Yes. Digital is only the a "computerized" form of analog. Out from the DAC it is all analog. Digital is only distortions from aliasing, bit depth reduction a la quantisation error, jitter, lossy codecs. All of this can be significantly reduced, avoided, minimized down to "beyond hearing". With some kind of HQ oversampling, higher sample rates, higher bit depth, dithering, noise shaping, clocking, lossless formats, good gear. Etc

 

In this discussion, we are exploring the original analog sound, which undergoes subsequent recording using digital technology. In the reproduction process, a DAC is utilized to transform a digital signal from a recording into an analog one. The DAC receives a sequence of discrete values, expressed by it as point voltages or currents. (DACs typically operate on voltage principles, converting digital input into an analog voltage output. Although there are current-output DACs, voltage-output DACs are more prevalent.) The resulting output voltage is quantized, meaning it can only adopt specific discrete values determined by the digital input. Despite these values being very closely spaced, they do not form a truly continuous signal like an ideal analog one.
This quantization arises from the finite resolution of the digital input and the inherent constraints of the DAC circuitry. As a result of the physical and electrical characteristics of the DAC, alongside other analog amplification stage components, each possessing a settling time, a global inertial effect known as smoothing occurs. Consequently, the intervals between discrete values in the voltage/current spectrum are bridged by inertial tails (post-ringing), creating an approximation of a continuous signal. However, the analog signal produced in this manner does not accurately replicate the original analog sound; instead, it often exhibits a somewhat "fluttery" quality, resulting in a grainy sound. Although this graininess may be nearly imperceptible, it is consistently present, even if just below the threshold of hearing.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2024

We should delve deeper. In some ontology/cosmology theories and quantum theory of space this universe might be represented as a matrix. And every matrix is cornered. The corners of a matrix refer to the elements positioned at the intersections of different rows and columns: the top-left corner is at the intersection of the first row and the first column, the top-right corner is where the first row meets the last column, the bottom-left corner is located at the last row's intersection with the first column, and the bottom-right corner lies at the junction of the last row and the last column.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2024

The converter cannot construct an analogous curve that passes exactly through all points because it would require an infinite number of points at hand. Instead, it increases the number of points to a certain degree, but the signal is still discrete, just on a different scale. The same as in digital photography. You can never render a digitally taken photograph as analog.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2024

you're repairing your bicycle.
you inspect one of the wheels.
you spin the wheel.
you close your eyes.
you open your eyes.
the wheel is now in a different position.

what happened between you closing your eyes and opening them again?

did the wheel snap from position 1 to position 2 with nothing happening in between?
or did it continue spinning while you weren't looking?

knowing position 1 and position 2, the wheel's properties and the amount of force applied, can you image that someone could possibly come up with a formula that can perfectly interpolate the wheel's position at any point in time that can be translated to electronic components?

(you worked on this type of problem many times in school, probably hundreds if not thousands of times in math)

 

Eyes open: The bicycle existed with the wheel in position 1.
Eyes closed: The bicycle dematerialized and went into non-existence.
Eyes open again: The bicycle re-materialized with the wheel in position 2.

 

you assume that analog dynamic range is more than digital, but the opposite is the case.

1 analog in

2 to digital

3 dac output


1 equals 3

 

A digital audio signal only represents an analog frequency and so gets 10% of any work that it might find for it's client. That's pretty standard.

 

Last edited: Apr 21, 2024

The seemingly smooth and continuous analog output from DACs is somewhat artificial and involves a degree of probability. This effect is accomplished through a technique known as "reconstruction" or "interpolation." By employing reconstruction filters and interpolation methods, DACs can generate analog output signals that give the impression of smooth continuity, even though they receive discrete digital inputs. Consequently, the outcome is essentially an imitation of the original analog signal. Moreover, the ("funny") processes I mentioned earlier further contribute to creating the continuity of the output. All of these processes include distortions not present in the original analog signal.

 

What comes next? Will we talk tomorrow about whether the signal that goes into the cable on one side is the same on the other side, where it comes out again? I'm looking forward to the voices that take the position that the output signal is never exactly the same as the input signal and therefore cables are artifact inducers that distort the signal. Cables are bad. Don't use cables. Don't use mics. Don't use rooms. Lol.

 

Last edited: Apr 19, 2024

Exactly.

As soon Nyquist–Shannon enters the discussion, suddenly everyone turns all New Age "woo" and invokes the Ship of Theseus paradox, Heraclitus's river philosophy, Zeno's Paradox, and anything else they can remember from that movie "What the BLEEP Do We Know!?"

"But only analog is real, man!!!!"

 

Yes, you can. The state-of-the-art technology used for this is called "printing".

 

This is one of the dumbest threads I have read on this site.

And @hamidkarimi , quit posting nonsense.

 

We only need an infinite number of points if the analog signal has an infinite bandwidth. But as this doesn't happen, 44.1 and 48kHz have enough points for the human hear, with higher resolutions being useful only on the production side for specific reasons.

 

But what about pure silver, cryogenically treated, fluorinated ethylene propylene dielectric fluid filled cables? My magic ears can definitely hear the difference between those and Behringer cables. They cost 1000% more but are great value for money considering the clarity they give to frequencies above 50kHz.

 

Is analog audio a narcissistic "high value" client and digital is getting whatever fell off the table to make make it look good on Instagram, I mean monitors? I had no idea. I will treat my plugins better next time.

 

It's best you do!

 

i am not going into the tech details, because you are already wrong with this assumption:

that is not required. it is only required to do that for frequencies which can be heard by humans, not more and not less. and this is what any 24 bit 44.1kHz converter is able to perform easily.

distortions of tones over 22 khz can only be heard by about 8-10% of people under 25. plus they are controlled by combfilter arrays and finally lowpassfiltered. the rest is a matter of proper amplification, i.e. the analog part of the dac.

the "distortion" you are talking is purely hypothetical and it a thousand times smaller than the distortion of the analog signal between the output and the speaker.

in an analog circuit you can not even create any useful music signals under -90db. if you record such a signal with a metric halo interface which converts true 32 bits, the lower third of them already only contain noise.