What... are you saying you don't believe him?

 

I'm talking exactly about this. You can use midis if you change some things. You can use them even as they are, for example a melody and add elements. That's my opinion. BUT, besides that - and I don't agree with this - you can use them as they are, change just presets because it is what it is that's why people sell them and that's who SOME people buy them. You can do everything. It's how you feel like you said. I personally never used ready midis from packs (I've used samples though) but If I feel like I need some inspiration I would do it (not a whole song, lets say a melody to start from).

 

I wil tell it once again, I'm not saying I agree using premade midis. Just having a chat. So, to answer you, yes I believe sampling and using a premade midi is pretty much the same thing. You steal a midi because someone else made it. Right? I'm saying what you said. Same thing with a sample. You steal it. You own it because you re-arrange it? Hell no. In my mind it's the same thing. People used to complain about samples. Like "oh you took just a 4 bar loop and put drums". Now people complain about midis and melodies and things like that. Idk man if we keep thinking like that then I'll have to feel bad because I use drum samples from others kits. Am I stealing drums? With the same logic yes because I didn't make those drums. Feel free to correct me if you disagree and sorry for my english.

 

All I need is a boom, boom, bap, and all my inspiration comes from within. Sure some people like to paint by numbers too, if you change the colors its a different painting. I prefer to freehand my art. Its more satisfying, and not cheating.

So you find a loop you like then change it enough not to sound like the original? So your game is to find obscure midi so you dont have to change it as much? Thats backwards man. Learn how to make the midi so your not stuck in the loop.

How can you improvise in a jam session with other musicians? In the old days jamming with your band. Nowadays abelton link? You will never learn how with midi loops no matter how much you change them not to sound like the original, thats for sure.

With most hiphop sampling they werent hiding behind the loop, it was a tribute, an homage to the original artist out of respect. Not stealing....They wanted you to know the record they sampled.

 

Last edited: Dec 10, 2016

Before these project files hit the market, people where using construction kits to "produce" music. I go a long way back, I used to write "shareware" music for Amiga and Atari ST disks a very long time ago. I used a program called ProTracker which exclusively used samples from other sources. Even back then (I'm talking early 90's) it was argued that rearranging samples in a Tracker was cheating.

What I've been doing lately is taking a project file, changing all the midi to my own. So the musical content is all my own. However the sound design, the drum patterns, they are not mine. Is the song still mine though?

It's such a grey area, where do you draw the line. When does it become my song? When I design my own sounds? Do I have to design my own Kick? Snare? What if I record in a bass, do I have to build my own Bass guitar? Strings? Where is the line that determines I'm not cheating and who determines that line.

It's fascinating to me.

I come from a computing programming profession, I learned very quickly to not rewrite already existing code, just rip what you can out of existing code and make it work. It's easier and everyone does it. If you don't do it, you are considered a pretty shit coder to be honest.

So I wanted to try that pedagogy in producing music. Not for realsies, just to see what happens. Well maybe for realsies if it worked.

Personally I think if you have changed the chord structures and the melodies it's now your song. Everything else is method, and I don't think the average punter even knows or cares how a song is made.

Case in point Nashville Tennessee and Country Music. Arguably the best grossing genre of music, and the most templated. Every country song has the same structure, same tones, same sounds, in fact most of that music is written by the same few people. They have extreme control over how things are produced and operated. It's all the same, and it sells very well.

I'm interested in peoples thoughts. Meanwhile I'm going to try some more "experiments".

Peace all, it's only music.

 

Ive used templates before. For seeing how their arrangement goes nothing else. Ill put markers where the changes are then delete it from the project. Oh and I like to check out the fx and returns to see if they have any magic going on I dont know about yet. Thats it though. Doesn't feel right to use them for anythnig but a LEARNING tool as the sellers usually intended. They always make em too short for some reason too. Maybe its to try to make you realize its not really a whole song? Just 4/4/4/4/4 You still have to add an extra 4 bars in the intro and 4 in the breakdown and 4 on the outro. Doesnt stop some people though from using it as is though. Thats how you can usually spot em, 4/4/4/4/4

 

Last edited: Dec 11, 2016

When you make the track from scratch its all yours, no questions about it. Thats how I differentiate between the mine and theirs.

 

Heres a piano riff I just made. Did I change it enough yet?

Funeral procession for Mary's sheep? LoL

 

Last edited: Dec 10, 2016

Hehe. Interesting though isn't it. There's a reason we can't copyright a chord progression. Imagine the blues guys if that ever happened.

Here in Australia the law is if your melody can be recognised as similar to another, than you are in breach of copyright. In your example you'd probably get away with it, but who knows. We have a bush song here called "Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gumtree", when the band "Men at Work" wrote a flute line that sounded a lot like that old song, the traditional owners sued and won. It was an absolute disgrace as you had to listen real close to hear it and it was only 11 notes. How this can happen when Boulevard of Broken Dreams and Wonderwall don't bat an eylid is beyond my comprehension.

However the crux of your question I'm surmising is one of morality. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it. I think you've taken a piece of work, and made it your own. That's really how music works, wether we do it intentionally or not we take our influences and make them our own.

Great riff by the way

 

U are not limited to using anything "exclusively", I think? U can always record ur own samples!

I mean, as far as I'm concerned, it sounds like it's ur own song on those terms. If ur saying that the only thing engineered by Cymatics (or whatev) is the mix & the drum programming, then that's ok. I hope that u learned a lil bit about eq etcs from the experience? Cos I did notice that ur mixes have improved a lot lately! I thought u had just paid attention to professor / YouTube / old wizened mixey wrinkled geezer, or smthn!

To me, it's kinda "what's the (technically) difficult bit"? If u did that, it's kinda ur song. I mean, otherwise ur going down the route of saying that anyone using music tech of any kind is a fraud. U know - OMG arpeggiator! OMG sampled drums! OMG grooves! Does anyone rly wanna (or have the patience to) do all that fucking donkey work, just to sound authentic?