Allocated unit size and the difference of the file size.

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware' started by Niruvana, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. Niruvana

    Niruvana Kapellmeister

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    I recently got a 4TB SSD and transferred my data from my 3TB external hard drive. Both of them were formatted as NTFS 4096 bytes. After the transfer, I found some files on 4TB SSD were bigger than the external hdd. Totally, around 500 MB is different. So, I'm wondering if it can happen and why.

     
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  3. twoheart

    twoheart Audiosexual

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    Sounds funny. Did you format the external disk yourself or were it preformatted? Or did you use a special tool for transferring the files or just explorer?
    The difference sounds so typical for a difference in cluster size (file size vs. size on disk).
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  4. Niruvana

    Niruvana Kapellmeister

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    It was preformatted (I forgot what it was) and I re-formatted with Disk manager at first (ExFat) and re-formatted with explorer (NTFS 4096 bytes) eventually. When I formatted with exFat, it ate too much space, so it couldn't copy all the files from the original drive. Thus, I re-formatted with NTFS.
    Here is the screenshot of my drives' status.
    Forget about the last one. The first one (left side) is my original external hard drive (WD Ultra HDD 3TB), and the second one (right side) is the new one (WD Blue SSD 4TB) which has the issue.
    Allocation unit size issue.JPG
     
  5. twoheart

    twoheart Audiosexual

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    Best Answer
    Difference between the formatting: The HDD uses 4096 (mult by 732 558 079 sectors) bytes per sector, the SSD 512 bytes per sector (mult by 7 814 000 639).
    The organisation of files isn't directly controlled by the OS but the hardware controller onboard of the SSD drive. The controller reports file size and free storage size. So there may be a difference between the sizes the controller and Windows report.
    I suspect the difference to be in TRIM function of the SSD. You use Win 10 so TRIM is enabled but for external (USB) drives the TRIM function may not be controlled by the OS but the controller.

    I have a quite similar "issue" for an internal SSD. Everytime I restore the drive form an image with a backup software, the reported free space is much more than it was before. I know that the Backup software initiates a TRIM operation when it restores the image, so I suspect the reduction in size is caused by the TRIM function.

    P.S.: I just initiated a defrag by hand on my internal 1TB SSD. After a reboot it rports 1 GB more free space on disk.
     
  6. Niruvana

    Niruvana Kapellmeister

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    I didn't realize TRIM function caused the issue. New technology...
    Plus, didn't realize defragging helps to save the space of ssd.
    Thx!
     
  7. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    And also shortens the lifespan of your ssd too. In some cases where an SSD is old and has undergone many re-writes, it can even brick the ssd entirely, rendering it useless. By default SSD controllers optimize performance by moving blocks of data automatically using the TRIM function, no need to defrag.
    All ssd companion software i am aware of, includes a manual optimization function that you can use, if in any doubt. Defragment shouldn't be used as it actually performs a whole re-write on whatever your entire SSD's capacity is.
    With that said, a Samsung 860 EVO is rated at a 1200TB write endurance, so if you have an SSD with an equivalent or better endurance and feel adventurous, go ahead and experiment.
    Cheers :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  8. twoheart

    twoheart Audiosexual

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    For Win 8/10 defrag on drives marked as SSDs by the OS, only initiates a TRIM command. Therefore defrag is enabled even for SSD by default. And by default defrag triggers a TRIM once a week.
    @Niruvana uses Win 10.

    So calm down, no real defrag takes place. :no:

    Was a little hard to find, but here's a reference:
    https://www.majorgeeks.com/content/page/everything_you_need_to_know_about_ssd_trim.html

    So the tip to disable defrag on SSDs is a bit outdated now. I don't know if there is another app/service/cronjob in windows 10 that triggers TRIM but I tested an older system (on wich I've disabled defrag for the system for a reported 609 days) a minute ago. After triggering defrag and rebooting, SSD reports 2 GB more free space (256GB SSD). So I don't think there is another trigger for TRIM in the OS. Hence disabling defrag on WIN8/10 for SSDs may be counterproductive
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  9. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    Yep you 're right, i got spooked when you said defrag hehehe :) No worries though, cheers mate.
     
  10. BILIYA

    BILIYA Newbie

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    The difference sounds so t filezilla uc browser rufus ypical for a difference in cluster size (file size vs. size on disk).
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
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