Hi all (new member here).

I found this forum via audioz.download, and got the impession here might be some knowledged people that might be able to help me solving a very strange problem.

For home drumpractice I use Alesis DM10 drumkit, and have started using Addictive Drums 2 for sounds. I have discovered a very strange hi-hat problem in Addictive when closing the hi-hat with the foot. It sounds like a normal hi-hat that has it's bottom hat tilt-screw at max tilt, so the sound duration is more than twice as long as a normal hihat foot close, and no matter what I try I can not get it changed.

If I open Addictive Drums 2, either as standalone or fx-plugin in the DAW, and go to the "Map window", then highlight the "Hihat" selector in the middle of the screen, and then with my computer mouse click "HH Foot Close" midi note at the top of the list, then it sounds normal, like a hihat should sound when closing it with the foot.

But if I push the Alesis DM10 hihat pedal to the Foot Close position, then I get these sustained streched sound as if the bottom hat tilt-screw is at max tilt. Very annoying.

If you listen to attached mp3-file, the start of the file is me "playing" the "HH Foot Close" with my computermouse inside Addictive Map Window, and the last half of the mp3 is me playing (closing) the same Addictive hihat with my DM10 hihat-pedal.

I have also spent HOURS fiddling with the settings in Addictive, also trying various settings in the Addictive "Map CC value to stryketype" settings and the foot and splash sensitivity in the "Generate foot chick from CC" settings, but no help in that.

I think this problem must be related to Addictive, as the hihat foot close sounds normal when I use DM10 alone with its own sound library.

So if anyone is interested and able to help me solve this Addictive problem, it will be much appreciated. Thank you.

 

Last edited: Aug 21, 2019

The Map CC value does not trigger the HH Foot Close sample. These values only re-route the stick's stroke to different Close and Open types.

As to my experience with other people's e-drums, the problem is the trigger, not ADD2.

Record DM10's hh movement and look at a MIDI editor which note is sent when the hh is closed by foot. You may need to realign the according sample to this note in ADD2.

 

@No-Avenger. Thank you, and you may be "somehow" correct. Part of the solution I have just figured out, and it was unexpected. I had to disable the HH SPLASH SEND functionality in the DM10 "Utility Trigger" settings, as this messed up Addictive's control of the foot close. This solution I have never seen discussed in any forum, and I have read TONS of forums all over the place to try to find a solution.

Well, now I am a bit closer to satisfied with the setup, but need to work on the adjustments of the Addictive controle part of the foot splash, as this did not sound so well. Anyway, thanks for "forcing" me to take another look into the DM10 settings

 

In Addictive HH Foot Splash is not = HH Foot Close, so your drums are maybe still triggering the wrong sample.

 

I know, but the foot splash signal from the DM10 seems to interfere and create problems for the execution of the HH Foot Close in Addictive. It must be so as the foot close sound became normal when I disabled splash send in the DM10.

There is probably more to this problem, on top of the fact that disabling the splash send in DM10 created another problem, that is that I am no longer able to record foot close MIDI. I can record hihat MIDI signals created with my drumstics, but foot close actions are not recorded. So back to searching for solutions, as I have to activate the splash send in DM10 in order to be able to record foot close MIDI actions.

 

What exactly is DM10 sending as foot splash? A MIDI number/note or a CC?

And btw, foot close and splash are two different things in analog hardware too.
Splash means the foot is raised again, so the hh is open.
Close means the foot holds the pedal down, so the hh stays closed.
ADD2 samples picture this pretty well.

 

I am fully aware that foot splash and foot close are two different things. I started playing drums in the 1980's

The problem here is that Addictive does not produce what I play on the hihat pedal, while there is no problem when I use the DM10 alone. So normal hihat pedal actions (foot close and foot splash) works and sounds normal in DM10, while Addictive seems to be "confused" about what is going on, and seems to output BOTH a foot close and part of a foot splash, as you can hear in the last part of the attached mp3 in my OP.

It is is past midnight here, so I will have to wait until tomorrow checking the MIDI numbers/notes

 

Ok, sorry, but feel free to ask if you need help (just kidding).

Your e-drum kit pieces are connected to the drum module with a cable that transmits voltage, not MIDI. The MIDI signal is created inside the drum module. Therefore the drum module should work flawlessly, but the MIDI conversion is acting up. This problem is not uncommon, sadly.

 

Here is a MIDI file (100 bpm) example of what is going on....or rather some of what is going on. First I play 2 bars closed hihat with a stick, then 2 bars foot close with foot pedal, then 2 bars of open hihat with stick, then 2 bars of foot splash on beat 1 and 3 and closing with foot on beat 2 and 4.
I can see only two midinotes, note 46 when played with stick (both closed and open hits) and note 30 when played by foot on the footpedal, both foot close and splash.

So yes, it looks like MIDI is going to Addictive, and from Addictive out to the DAW, but only some of the MIDI are recorded in the DAW. Some strange addictive-things must be going on.

@No-Avenger, could you load the attached MIDI file in your DAW, and see what Addictive is doing with it?

Edit: Hmm....not allowed to upload MIDI files. What to do about that? I try renaming it as .zip and see if that works. Must be renamed to .mid after downloading

 

Another thing that puzzles me: When those MIDI signals are recorded in the DAW, and then played back using the DAW, where is the information that tells Addictive I am doing a foot splash? That is, how do Addictive see the MIDI note as a quick foot close and immediate release, when all it gets from the midi note is the note number and one CC position? I could not see any more relevant information in the midi note properties. But then again, I probably have a lot to learn about the software. Does not help much have been playing acustic drums on and of for decades

 

Ok, I checked the mid file and used Alesis DM10 map settings in ADD2.

Close hh with stick works fine, aswell as open hh with stick.
Foot closed is transmitted as note #30.

Sadly, what you try to achieve is not possible, as far as I understand MIDI and here is why:

Easy things first. The pedal is transmitting a CC value according to its position. When you strike the hh with a stick a MIDI note is transmitted and routed, according to the CC value, to a designated MIDI note. If the value is low, a closed hh is triggered, if the value is high, an open one. You can follow me so far?

And here comes the kicker. These two values, CC and MIDI note, are transmitted at the same time! And therefore it doesn't work with the footsplash and the the foot close 'at the same time', because the CC value for the splash, means that the hh opens again, is send after the foot close info, the MIDI note #30.
How should ADD2, or any other drum vsti, know that you want to play a splash after the note has already been triggered. This simply doesn't work.

What you can do is change the sample which is triggered by note #30 in ADD2's mapping, just by dragging Foot HH closed on this note.
So, if you need both notes, splash and closed, you'll have to edit the MIDI notes in an editor.

 

First I will thank you for spending time trying to help me, much appreciated.

I think I understand all of what you are saying about how this works in Addictive. But maybe you don't understand some of what I try to communicate.

Foot splash is working fine and I have no desire to change that, it is the normal foot close that is the problem. It does not sound like a foot close should sound. For normal recording I can "fix" things later by remap the note to another sample, but I want to play this live, in practice situation and live on stage. For practice and for live performance using Addictive I need the foot close functionality to work and to sound normal. For such situations I can not remap the notes to "something else" and have other functionality suffer (foot splash etc).

So instead of using some "ducktape" solution, I need to figure out what is the exact problem, and fix it so it works as it should do.

Btw, I am using the Alesis DM10 midimapping preset in Addictive, so one would think the people creating the preset know what sample each midi-note should trigger. There must be something else going on that ruin the foot close, and I am probably stuck until I get someone to help me to figure it out.

*scratching head*

 

Sorry, I think you still didn't get it, but I'll try to explain again, no prob.

By closing your hh the drum module sends MIDI note #30. With the DM 10 setting, within ADD2, note #30 is aligned to Foot Splash. This is the reason why you hear this sound. And this is the only reason.
Try it yourself. Drag any other hh sample to note #30 (in ADD2 mapping) and then this other sample will be triggered by note #30 and the Splash sound is gone You can, for instance, drag a tom sample to note #30 and your foot slpash, I mean the one you're playing, will trigger this tom.

As I said, ADD can only recognize that the hh is closed and not predict that you'll open it again. The lifting of the pedal afterwards and the according CC values can't change the already triggered note retroactively. That's all.

 

XLN Audio Addictive Drums manualhttps://assets.xlnaudio.com/documents/addictive-drums-manual.pdf MAP WINDOW – Advanced Settings CC HiHat page 40