For half a century the establishment "Music Industry" had iron-fisted control over everything that happened. Who got contracts, deals, tours, session work, and whatever other kind of work you want to shoehorn into that. Certain "real music" genres had given the appearance of DIY democratization of music. Anyone with some talent and a work ethic could make music and not need a big label deal, or even actual musicians. It had already created a "high supply/low demand" situation like almost no other industries have ever seen. So which giant manufacturers of instruments will continue making physical instruments? Which will switch to plugin only development? Which will realize there is no point in creating plugins when the AI will just add a virtual copy of an already virtual plugin? vst² here we come. Maybe when we all realize that making AI music is our only option left after all the instrument manufacturers stop making anything, no-one is making money from AI created junk because the public figure it out; finally the "Music Industry" will regain their pre-2000 sales numbers, and their iron-fisted control over everything again.

Like it is supposed to be.

 

This is called rationalization, which is constantly happening. Yes, AI will cost millions of jobs worldwide and, as you say, it may be that many people will become unemployed because their products are no longer in demand. A machine is now doing it. It may also be that people with skills like the ones you described will then feed the AI.

If energy costs, taxes and the cost of living rise, many people will no longer be able to afford cinema visits, records and live concerts. They will only be able to rent things or end up on Netflix or illegal streaming services.

Film music for movies always involves two parties. The client who uses an existing recipe for success on Hans Zimmer to deliver his film in the best possible quality so that lots of people go to the cinema and not only pay the film costs, but if things go well, also make a profit.

Humanity's dream of no longer working so much is becoming more and more likely, but people also want to do something meaningful, what are they supposed to do at home all day, they need a task and a purpose in life.

As WEF Klaus Schwab said, they will own nothing and be happy. We have not yet managed to organize ourselves or create other payment structures and will therefore be overrun by AI in the future.

 

We're already halfway there! another 5-10 years 90% of DAWs and plugins will be rent only. We will also see hardware that requires a monthly fee for use. fun stuff!

 

Yes absolutely. Its already happening, and will continue to at a rapid pace, but Its not like im submitting a song, and in my signature it says "made with AI". Most people still dont know how to even use suno, let alone use AI generation as a launch pad to arrange further, compsoe alongside, tweak, edit, or change at so and so's will.

Ive read the transcript, ive been following closely, and yes, its not just Suno, but its not black and white. You are allowed to use the material incorporated into your own work, you just cannot use the material in isolation.

 

Guys, I think it's more prolific than anything we may have suggested may happen. I can already see the worst case scenario. Imagine it goes the way of sampling. Initially when it first happened people were being sued everywhere. Then in came the fair usage. Imagine the same thing happens with A.I. and you cannot go onto any streaming site that does not have some form of A.I accessibility.
worst scenario? Not one piece of music gets released without A.I. propagating it in one shape or form and people who do not have illusions of grandeur decide that there is no point putting anything they write out there and that propagates.
We have a society of only regurgitated music and nothing remotely new.

P.S. I used the word illusions not delusions to indicate the dream of I want to be famous not being part of their agenda.

 

Last edited: Feb 25, 2025

You can't copyright it in isolation, or where it makes up a majority of the elements that make the song into a song. The identifiable elements. Just like most people will do with commercial sample packs anyway. (paid or not as a side issue).

I almost think AI is a "less stealing" method of the 2. The output of AI might be influenced by past works by whoever did them, but it will at least generate something more diffused before they are even begun to be manipulated by the "producer".

What I would really like to see, is an AI checker, along the lines of Shazam; just geared more towards a pass/fail identification check. That would allow you to use AI, scan your track and see if it can find anything "stolen" by the AI you used to make the track.

It would be like the opposite of the AI the Marvin Gaye Estate would love to create. That one, a small original sample is loaded in; and it would just scan and sue every track on Spotify that even remotely sounds the same.

 

Yes, the best times of music are long gone, everything has been said, written and invented. Every style has been combined, changed and some styles have been enriched or modified with the new software synthesizers. People rapped, vocals were tuned - played backwards and forwards. And in the end everything is put through the meat grinder like distortion plugins.

The return of vinyl gives hope, however, and the longing for authentic, homemade music with real people around a campfire while their smartphones are permanently switched off offers a little hope. There are also many new online radio stations today.

Klaus Schulze (electronic pioneer) said when asked whether there are still opportunities to create something new, he replied "yes, there is still something in the arrangement".

I only listen to old music, sometimes a band manages to create something new, but they have a hard time competing with the endless amount of inferior quality.

 

I understand what you are saying, though I do not believe any form of music is inferior. Any beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. To some people, A.I. has beauty in its regenerative re-mashing and human simulations, to others, not. I try and write new music all of the time. It's almost a form of meditation.
I only hope humans do not get to a stage where they feel musically it is pointless to cold write anymore as an end result.

 

thank you @Somnambulist for your words, I think and hope like you that good people with special skills will remain with us and that future generations will continue to have people attend university or develop their talent, but I'm not sure. It could also be that the new digital progress is robbing our society of the ability to set something up on its own or is severely limiting cognitive abilities.

A few other thoughts: Imagine a small society cut off from civilization and consisting of a few hundred people.

What do they do first? Some will hunt and grow plants, others will build huts. In the evenings they sit around the campfire and remember music, a flute is quickly carved and a song is written and then they sing. All of this is only possible if you have the skills or knowledge in the form of books.

 

About quality standards: Most of the music does not meet my quality standards. Most of the videos and cell phone pictures do not meet my high quality standards. A photographer once said 90& is rubbish. Most short postings in social forums show the educational and knowledge gaps many of the earthlings have.

If I build a house, I will have it built by people who have learned their job. You can't perform a heart operation if you've seen a YouTube video about it.

 

Greetings from the land of the now fully unabashed oligarchy.

Big facts. The problem is, if we discuss it as a tool being weaponized against people, the conversational trail just leads back to where it always does in these discussions, and where most things lead, which is the insurmountable gap between the haves and the have-nots.

In today's landscape the race to globally monopolize tools and technologies is fast and abrupt—often with the judges getting bought-out before it even begins—with those holding the most power [see: those best financially equipped] taking more power by gaining control of the tools and technologies first, e.g., "A.I.," ensuring the rapid growth of monopolies/duopolies. I shouldn't have to point out the snowball effect of the common citizen then having to pay over money to the already over-wealthy for the tools or services.
(*"But what if we all rode horses, sent smoke signals for communications, and used Linux instead?!" shouts someone in the back*)
And, of course it helps owning, maybe not the people directly, but the companies, agencies and law firms who employee those who would/could successfully advocate on your behalf when it comes to any sort of rights to ownership or compensation, rights and compensations which are likely, at that point in the story, presented at-large as societal privileges which are only given to some, another tactic to keep the foundational members of a society's work force, artistic community, and schools of education firmly at the bottom, fighting amongst one another for scraps, so they don't happen upon the idea of climbing up to steal food directly from the proverbial plate.

And this is why I don't usually jump into these discussions, because the truth of it is, we've come to the point in our history that, most any problem we're facing is part of the Human Condition—I could make a strong case that the only true problems left are ecological (shelter) and existential (mental,) as the rest could be easily solved—and as long as we feel we need to hold excessive power to cover for our deep-seated cowardice, xenophobia, and general fear, we'll continue to be a parasitic, shit-bag excuse for a sentient species.

And if you were curious, yes—it's nuthin but sunshine & rainbows over here, all day long.

"The businessmen whisper from backroom thrones /
Their long grasping tentacles are hungry and strong /
Top chart hits and in future, we can't go wrong /
But it's only their wallets that get fat on our songs"

~ Conflict, Exploitation (1985) ~

 

I advise companies like Suno, Riffusion, Weights.gg, and Replay. Over a year ago, Netflix, along with plenty of other companies, started an AI Taskforce across all departments. I was brought in for the music side.

AI takes the blame because it's the latest villain people use to project their fear of job loss. But Netflix has been using pre-made samples, Kontakt libraries, and one-stop-shop music houses for years. Entire scores have been created with a DAW and great sound libraries. AI is just the next step in that process.

This is how every industry moves forward. They evolve or they fall behind. The irony is that it's Netflix, the same company that put Blockbuster out of business by embracing new technology. Now they're doing exactly what made them successful in the first place.

And yet, movie theaters still exist. Streaming didn't erase them. Both can happen. You’re not still renting from a video store in 2025, are you?

I think this reaction is overdramatic. Taste is what separates great music from the rest, and that has always been true, with or without AI. There has always been bad music made by humans alone. Just because a person creates something doesn’t automatically make it good. Taste is still the deciding factor.

AI isn't the only variable at play. Budgets, time constraints, the type of score, and the mood all influence the outcome. Those are all creative choices. If AI can help navigate those factors, why not use it? It’s not replacing people, it’s working alongside them. Real musicians are still being brought in to record, track, enhance, and rework parts. AI isn't taking away, it’s adding.

This feels just like when people hated on software synths, only to turn around and use them.

 

Redistribution runs from the bottom up, remember the first million is the hardest, after that you live off the interest.

‘You keep them stupid, I'll keep them poor.’ Said the king to the bishop!

‘The big ones stop ruling when the little ones stop crawling’

 

That's because some people have a need for the cinema and buy a ticket. To experience something together. Open air and live concerts are also still very popular because they are a unique experience. We have things like rides like the cathedral with a rollercoaster and great surprises, it is very popular after all!

 

It’s easy to blame AI or in-house production, but this goes way beyond that. The problem isn’t the technology. Tech has always been created to solve problems. The real issue is budgets and financial constraints. Money dries up, industries take hits, and companies have to adapt.

This is bigger than AI. The entire movie industry has been struggling financially, and Netflix is no exception. When that happens, budgets get cut. Instead of blaming the latest tech solution, the focus should be on keeping the industry alive. Campaign for people to go out and support theaters. Encourage the masses to pay an extra ten bucks a month to get all the movies they can at their fingertips with the click of a remote button.

AI isn’t the villain here. The real problem is much bigger. The money trickles down from the top. It also dries up from the bottom.

 

I want to just make note that this is a possible option. Take a moment to ground yourself and feel these feelings of fear. Be aware of them. Then take a moment to imagine the opposite way this outcome could be. Yes its easy to come from a place of fear. I think most people live in that space. But try to approach this topic from a place of openness and see how you feel.

 

The main reason this is happening is because the number of actual music producers is small, especially those who pay for software and plugins.

I get the mindset of wanting things for free. A lot of use the sister site, and that can make it easy to forget how much it takes to create, maintain, and promote a product while trying to survive as an audio plugin company. Keeping the lights on isn’t cheap. Subscription models exist because they’re one of the only ways to sustain that. It goes way deeper than a company just trying to take your money.

Even when I gave away Replay for free on this forum, people still got upset and gave me a hard time. It showed me that no matter what you do, some people will always find a reason to be mad.

 

Actually there is no hate at all. If you know your history and you seem to know a little bit. it is what was suggested to be careful about when a computer hard drive took up an entire wall and people cleaned it. Millions over four decades were replaced worldwide by machines globally. Entire departments. They said be careful it doesn't replace humans. So if you know your history, it's a warning, the most recent not so long ago, by the writer's guild about replacing actors with A.I. I am sure being in the industry you did not miss that because it was only 2023 and Netflix was one of the companies warned. When the Writer's won, the media said 'for now'.
No dramatics, that's an unnecessary statement, it's a warning because once there in place doing its first total replacement, there's no going back.

No place of fear, that's too easy. It's the next generation that will pay for the ignorance of the previous generation. History books are full of that. The assumptions in your above statement about someone you know less about than I know of you, already tell me everything I need to know.
Full of what? Clear statements of the consequences of a lack of foresight.
Time will tell. To think it won't happen is silly as sure as discounting that perhaps it might. if you are in the industry then you'd know Disney has been experimenting with A.I since the turn of the century, before Netflix was a vision by its founders.

P.S. - Anything I use regularly I buy. I even have some misnamed 'A.I.' plugins I purchased. That said, the manual usage of what I own always yields better results. They are good starting points though if in a hurry, but so far, never make it to the final cut. Like anything, I am sure they will get better, but so far, the human ear still wins.

As for A.I - when push comes to shove, if companies can pay less they will. That's another historical greed fact of the human race and why everything I mentioned that has already happened and what might happen is in B&W. It is for the same reason Spotify and so many other companies have got away with things they would not have last century. Greed and the simple fact if they can get away with it, they will. So if they can use A.I to make more money and replace people, do not be silly enough to think they won't. If the fair usage laws change in favor of A.I. it's all over. The economics are not rocket science.

 

Last edited: Feb 25, 2025

I'm suggesting looking at the things from the past that might have scared you as a sign to adapt to the times.

When Pro Tools came along, old studio techs were up in arms. They thought their skills on tape machines and SSL boards would become obsolete. But instead of adapting, they refused to learn the new technology. The next generation of engineers came in, mastered Pro Tools, and took their jobs. Now, SSL mixing boards are basically fancy laptop stands, and tape machine techs are a dime a dozen.

And yet, great music is still being made. SSL boards and tape are still used when needed. Both can exist. The industry moved forward, and those who embraced the change stayed in the game.

New tools aren’t about taking your job, they’re about how you can use them to keep your job.

 

I am not remotely afraid, stop assuming

You aren't silly, please look at all the options, not just the ones you visually see in the job you are doing. It's great you are guiding. Perhaps you may even be one of the GOOD advocates for ensuring it doesn't replace people. I hope so.
It's no different than pretending a group of billionaires are working tirelessly for the benefit of the whole working class.
It's also great that YOU see it as a benefit, stay there, with that modus operandi. Not everyone has good motives and greed has proven itself to be a powerful motive for the wrong reasons.
It's not fear of the past, it is acknowledgment that human beings prove it regularly, an incapacity to learn from their mistakes. They tend to think either 'it won't happen to me', or worse, that they won't make the same mistakes doing the same things.
If you are an advocate for job creation, then you have my full support and probably, many, many others.
Stay on that M.O because that is a good motive when there are many who do not share your view when it comes to making money.