As far as I understand, reverb and delay are used for the distance of the stage in the mix. Especially, reverb.
Many say, "The more reverb, farther away, the less reverb, closer in your face"
However, when I increase reverb or delay, the sound gets bigger. Thus, it sounds closer than other instruments. Did I understand something wrong?

 

distance is determined mainly by predelay and decay length , more predelay = closer , more decay length = further , also the way you filter your reverb affect its precieved distance , distant sounds are not only lower in volume , they are also darker and lack top end

 

You also need to adjust the amount of signal going into the reverb relative to the original signal. It takes a bit of adjusting, nothing automatic at all. There is a very good article by John Chowning from the 1970's that clearly describes that aspect. Google for it.

 

Ye, that's why I put the fader down when I increase the amount of reverb.

 

The pre-fader amount to the reverb should be controlled differently from the fader on the original signal. Roughly, the amount of fade of the original signal is greater than the amount of fade going to the reverb.

 

Pre-fader?

 

Well... reverb is a very complex topic. Probably one of the most complex in signal processing.
I would go along with @Zeyad eLmoghazy in the sense that a shorter predelay would put the signal further into the background, simply because the attack phase of the signal would be smeared and obscured. The length of the decay also contributes to this a bit, but in my opinion decay has more to do with the design of the spatial sound, because it only reflects the reflective properties of a room and refers to what an instrument does in terms of rhythm and groove. When I start to create my image in the mix from front to back, it is not uncommon that the decay of my front reverb is the same as that of my back reverb. At least if I pursue a realistic spatial impression and want the instruments to be within the same room or it affects instruments that do something similar musically.
So if this is your cup of tea, I would start by mixing early reflections and late reflections to define front and back. Most reverbs have parameters to define the level of ER and LR. More ER = more forward, more LR = further back.
But to be honest...
I think your problem here is something else. Because reverbs are nothing else than delay taps, which are connected in series and in parallel and which are then scattered differently in different frequency ranges, different reverb algorithms have, besides different spatial qualities, also different modal or tonal qualities. So if you have chosen a reverb - for example a chamber - that brings more energy to the upper midrange, it is not surprising that the instrument sounds more forward. Or maybe the reverb is too disconnected from the source to put it into the mix. For example, too much predelay or a too long swell or too much reverb modulation.
Something similar applies to plate reverbs, which add a certain sense of space to the source, but do not push the signal into the back.
Long story short: If you want to move a signal further away without much coloration, I would recommend a hall reverb.

 

Last edited: Oct 27, 2020

i think he meant the amount of signal sent to the reverb or delay aux buss.

 

Ah, aka send level. That makes sense.

 

yep. I do my reverb sends always pre-fader, so for me it is the same thing. sorry for any confusion.
Above comment by sinus well is excellent.

 

Yeah especially reverb... can sometimes be very confusing as most developers don't give a shit about agreed standards!

A good example would be the pre-delay parameter:
Pre-Delay originally defines the delay between Direct Signal and Early Reflections. ERs usually appear more or less immediately (few ms) and give the instrument the character that says something about the size and shape of room it is in. The length of the delay between Direct and ER tells us where (distance) the instrument is in relation to the microphone.

Well, here's the thing:
For most reverbs that have been released, the pre-delay is BEFORE the early reflections, but the transition time between ER and LR is fix. And for some other reverbs, the 'pre-delay' is AFTER the early reflections, so it has a transition time but the pre-delay is fix. Both makes not so much sense at all. I prefer method 2 because it is easier and more resource-saving to insert a delay in front of the reverb than with method 1, which requires 2 reverb instances with isolated ER and LR to create a realistic room response. Bad examples for this nonsense are Valhalla and FabFilter. I really like their reverbs soundwise, but in this point they are absolutely annoying. Just my opinion. No bashing.

Edit: Removed confusing, misleading explanation and added a more reflective statement

 

Last edited: Oct 28, 2020

But why pre-fader? As soon as you adjust the channel's level you also have to adjust the send level and that's not necessary with post-fader send.

 

Last edited: Oct 27, 2020

That makes little sense. Pre-fader is usually for monitoring to musicians. Time effects is almost always sent post-fader, as it is relative to the fader volume. If you send it pre-fader you have to constantly adjust both fader level as well as fx return(s).
Edit: Oops. No Avenger and I (and many more) went to the same school of thought.

 

I tend to agree with you, but it depends on what other kind of processing (dynamics?) takes place on the aux and how much level-dependent the reverb reacts. sometimes it simply makes more sense to send the dry signal pre-fader to the reverb aux and then control both via vca fader.

 

Last edited: Oct 27, 2020