I know I know, according to people who never wrote a code all the daws sound the same. Well, I did the test with a group of people and we compared all major daws summing the same stems - the result was that there were pretty big differences.

So much so that I had to compare Logic and Ableton ( my main DAW) myself. Simply playing back a drumloop WAV file. Ableton's playback engine smeared the transient, and made it sound like it was an MP3 file. It lost a lot of punch while logic played the file back just fine - why is this? This is exactly what digital jitter sounds like when you don't clock a device correctly, so I'm guessing the audio engine inside Ableton has some downsampling going on due to it originally being coded for live use or something.
I'm just so used to Ableton's workflow- is there any way to get back this punch and get rid of this phasey sound? It's so weird to me that people still believe this is just a myth - do the self test with a decent sound card. It is very obvious.

Inb4 turn off warp. Yes, no shit I turned off warp.

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2022

Probably you are missing the transient cause you are using the warping algorithm: just turn it off:


When working with stems, you can globally turn off warping mode by doing this in settings:

 

Ableton is used for *way* too much electronic music to have simple time compression and expansion algorithms coded poorly with no huge backlash from their users. There are too many power users who would check this functionality, if they were even the least bit skeptical it was being done badly.

 

yeah no shit. If you cant hear the difference between the playback engine I dont know what to tell you. There is alot less spatial ifnormation (both depth and stereo) in ableton than in other daws I've tried. I wish this wasnt the case because the workflow is great!

 

lol. it's definitely the auto-warp and the warping algorithm.

 

I interviewed Sean from Autechre years ago and he talked a bit about DAWs. He mentioned that they tested Ableton but didn't want to continue using it because they thought the engine 'just didn't have a very good sound' (paraphrasing).

 

if you stack up a bunch of audio which has been stretched like this in Logic, you will end up with the exact same results. well, the phase issues; I'm not sure about the smeared transients, but you can bet I will look. There is nothing that can happen in Ableton where I would leave Logic willingly again; I just check it out each major version change to see what is new in there.

This is the Logic version of letting everything auto "warp", if you want to check for any differences in the compression/expansion compared with Live.

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2022

It's probably the warp function. It will effect the audio even if you haven't stretched it at all. Default settings in Ableton have warp turned on. Make sure it's off. I had a big concern about this a year or two ago and null tested Ableton, Pro Tools, Reaper, Studio One, FL Studio, Bitwig, and a couple others. They all nulled perfectly. No difference between any of them. Always blows my mind when people claim to hear a difference between DAWs. Just do a null test. They're all identical.

 

Absolute nonsense.
What is very obvious is that you don't understand Live has different warping modes.
Simply turn warping off if you want it to sound the same as Logic.

 

Why you refer to an old controversial topic without including 2-3 audio examples, the types of the files, the soundcard and first and foremost the settings of your audio clips? (!)

 

Some DAWs write DAW-specific information in WAV file headers, like tempo etc, and it doesn't make the file unreadable to other DAWs. You will have different results in different DAWs with the same clip.

 

Dear @Grater, you had warping turned on by default. Just admit it. I know u are going to bring up thesis upon thesis but sorry it's just a simple human error I would appreciate u admit. Rather than taking this thread to 20+ pages.

 

No, I've been using Ableton for a couple of years now. I know this. Do the self test- it is really obvious once you know what to listen to. I also tried HiQ on and off. Often times HiQ results in unpleasant digital distortion although it is meant to do the opposite.
The spatial information has this phasey cloud of distortion in Ableton and the punch is lacking- it is simply not in phase! David Kahne was saying how Cubase for him sounded in phase, I understand what he means now.

As in the OP I'm certain this is caused by some kind of jitter issue. Logic's playback engine is a lot more stable. I was always wondering why my mixes sounded so flat. Now that I can actually hear whats going on with my upgraded soundcard, I understand why all great producers who use Ableton never mix or print inside Ableton but bounce their multitracks out digitally. Sure, there are some exceptions who actually mix inside Ableton but the vast majority doesn't.

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2022

Super cool that you interviewed him. Did he say more interesting things which the internet wants you believe are "wrong"?

I'm contemplating the same honestly. I'm shocked how bad it sounds in comparison to Logic and even Fl studio. It's just the workflow that great and I grew accustomed to. I guess I'll have to make more of a distinction between producing and mixing and not be too hard on myself that sonically the beat may sound like shit but it actually is good if that makes sense.

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2022

This is funny to me. Internet wisdom has it that nulling proves it's the same. Well, did you guys actually do the test or are you just repeating what some random guy posted in the internet who does not have access to their source code ( pro tip: no one has access to the source code)
I did a test comparing the summing of all popular DAWs and no, they don't null- drastic differences unfortunately. Pro Tools and Cubase were the winners, which also happen to be the DAWs which are used to mix down records the most. Coincidence?

But what I'm referring to is the playback audio engine that sounds flat and phasey in Ableton. Bounced down the files should be similar if not the same ( summing is different obviously)

 

Once a year DAW elitists and purists gather in Orlando to review and listen to all the DAWs and Ableton always finishes last.
One purists said. "Ableton is as lovely as cat piss in the snow".

 

Incoming DAW carpet bombing

 

Live definitely sounds different to all the rest, it prob must be the playback engine.but wether it nulls or not ,it sounds different, cant put my finger on it but not as hifi or solid ,a bit plasticy sounding /synthetic is the only way i can describe it.Problem is its my favourite daw since live v3.love the workflow everything. Even bitwig sounds different, better to me than live ,wish they did a version that was laid out exactly the same as live would be nice .The sooner someone figures out wtf it is the better for humanity.

 

Yeah exactly. I WANT Ableton to sound as good as the other DAWs but it just doesn't and that makes me angry tbh. Flat out denying it seems to be straight gaslighting, especially since these people getting mad never even tried it themselves. You can have both DAWs open at the same time and compare easily.
There just is less spatial information and punch in Ableton and that is a big part of the music I make and enjoy listening to. Now I'm guessing it's mostly confined to the actually playback engine, not the exported files ( if it happens digitally)