then use pro tools

i have 4 daw here to do what i want and it works without any issue I get things done

Yes was born in 1972 and a friend of mine gave me access to the fist beta version in 1999 and I teach it....

Again what you feel is a limitation is because the DAW is made for LIVE PERFOMANCE

when you understand this then you produce accordingly without being stubborn and you learn to grow up as a human being...

Adults ? lolz

I prefer to keep my kid vibes as music is just like a children playing around with sounds

PS i really doubt Ableton will fix their AUTO PAN



PeaceR eveywhere stay zane and love the other

 

Last edited: Apr 15, 2024

I've never dared trying this m4l approach

Tremolo version 1.0 by incandescent on maxforlive.com

 

and this marvel can really help

Latency Fixer version 1.0 by ElisabethHomeland on maxforlive.com

 

here is more knowledge on PDC management in LIVE

understanding PDC problems and solutions - Ableton Forum

 

and from ableton live website

How to reduce latency – Ableton

 

Hi,

I spent the whole day testing it (didn't have anything else to do, hehe). I created 2 MIDI channels: one with a 100ms delay using a few plugins, and another with a utility on it (for null test). Additionally, I set up 2 audio input channels to record all of that (to see even visually). I tested with Ableton Delay, H-Delay, and EchoBoy, and they worked great without any problems. I even conducted a null test just for the sake of it :D.

I also tested with various compressors using sidechain (one channel used as a trigger also filled with 100ms delay), and one 100ms that was sidechained and one empty sidechained. I tried using Ableton's stock compressor and Pro-C 2. Everything worked fine. I tested with reverbs too, including Ableton's stock reverb and Valhalla Room. Although I didn't do a null test for these, they all performed well.

So far, the only issue I found was with the panner, but in my case, if I use it, I place it at the beginning of the chain or create an Audio Effects rack to use it in parallel. I also tested VSTs like LFO Tool (which has an option to fix latency by entering the number of samples it's off by), ShaperBox, and Psyscope (which also has latency options).

Even did the same tests in Bitwig just to confirm. Except there, LFO Tool, ShaperBox, and Psyscope worked well.

I would love to know which other plugins are not working. I tested with the ones that I use the most.

@muse2love Thx for sharing those links, will check them out.

 

so far it is the autopan that is causing it... but...
like you say with a bit of thinking there is a way to implement it properly without hickups...

but of course if you still insist to use it in a LIVE performance with 15 compressor and other stuff before... then I suggets you
buy an external board where you feed that channel and buy a real autopan hardware...

again LIVE is for LIVE

for MIXING PLUS FREEZE TRACK PROPERLY AND THEN USE HIGHER BUFFER SIZE

and aslo revisit this Latency Fixer version 1.0 by ElisabethHomeland on maxforlive.com

 

Yep, so far autopan is acting strange. And others like LFO tool, Shaperbox, Psyscope, but there are workaround for them.

I use it for mixing, but didn't had any problems with loads of channels and plugins, only visual latency not following (I hope I explained well), regarding audio everything is always in sync. Also I do not use autopan or ShaperBox stuff. And regarding sidechain I use Pro C-2 or ableton stock compressor. I make music in the box, I rarely record instruments, gutiars, synths etc...
I checked it out, I think it works like that new option they added "Keep Latency" or maybe I am wrong hehe

 

Outside of 3rd party plugins reporting latency incorrectly, I've been fine with Ableton PDC since V8 I think (@clone is absolutely correct regarding certain issues with external instruments and whatnot, and for that, most should read up)...

I do a lot of side-chaining operations (and in mostly non-edm ways, as that's not what I do... but for other utilitarian or aesthetic purposes), and I do a lot actions that if PDC was a problem, I would be really aware.

I'm not sure if it's a version issue, or an OS issue, or what is else is going on with other systems... but I have multiple, and they are all fine with some pretty big mixes etc.

I don't use Ableton "live", as I like it as an instrument to write on that I end up mixing with as it works just fine.

But Ableton has absolutely passed the point where the excuse is: "well it's for using live so you can't expect it's engine to..."x" )" etc.

It is a daw.

Is it the best? I would never say that. as that depends on what you are doing or how you like to work, or what you damn like or who you are or what your situation is.

If I was recording Paul Simon or the Foo Fighters in the studio I would probably use PT sadly or Logic for that kinda setup...

But for what I do, Ableton is just fine, and isn't going off the rails with timing problems in over a decade for me.

 

Yeah, I agree ArticStorm, v8 could be a train wreck... and was inconsistent.

v9 seemed to stabilize that, and my latency compensation problems went away for the most part outside of the chasing the external instrument thing on occasion and having to manual dive or go to forums to insure it wasn't something I was doing wrong....

I don't use their autopan much, or can't remember the last time I did, so it could be with that, but I can't imagine that would be tough to fix given some of the other obstacles they have overcome...

I previously (like v9 etc) had more issues with their video handling etc, but that's not relevant here.... and as you know, I have used pretty much every plugin down the pike over a long time and have multiple daws, and if Ableton was a real problem, I wouldn't be leaning on it as much as I do...

 

You guys are completely missing the point. its not just autopan!! its ANY time based plugin, a plugin that is synced to the clock / that has any high latency plugins before it. You have ONE acustica EQ or compressor, ONE oversampled saturator, etc etc, and you put shaperbox, infiltrator, looperator, efx fragments, sidechain compression, lfo tool etc after it ,and the issue arrises. You dont need "12 DiFfErnt ComPresSors" for this to be an issue, so drop that trope.

Also, its a joke to conside LIVE as just a live performance tool. Its been way past that for years now. Its a full fledged DAW. Id be willing to bet that 90% of Lives users use it for production, not performance. Was it created for live performance, yes, Its in the name. But its widely accepted as a DAW now, so you can drop that too.

If you guys arent having problems, good for you, you are either not using high latency plugins with time based plugins after them, or you are, and its not noticeable enough to be an issue. Often times a simple sidechain duck of 3 db will still work. However, an experienced ear can hear the 40ms difference in a trance gate or time based glitch effect. It will and does completely throw off the groove.

"jUst uSe pRotOoLs" - I do. i have been for 25 years. Protools SUCKS for production. Abletons midi, automation, clip editing, etc is miles above protools. This isnt just a mixing issue. This is a producing issue. It affects my sound design within ableton in the very beginning stages of a project. Besides that, you must have glanced over the part where i said i would prefer to stay within ableton as much as possible, as i have a very busy workload, and bouncing stems back and forth is exhausting and time consuming.

The Tremolo M4L you linked will have the exact same issue

Elisabeth Homelands Latency fixer is something completely unrelated to what we are talking about. Proves to me you either cannot grasp the concept, or did not read about what it does. Thanks for trying though, i do appreciate any and all suggestions.

the forum link provides some solutions, but not all of them are practical for every situation. I do use some of them though.

Again, this is an issue that ableton could fix, and people have been asking them to for years. They could perhaps provide plugin sandboxing and allow the freezing of individual plugin chains, or they could just fix the PDC code. I have a friend who works at Ableton, behind the scences, marketing or something like that, but she has inquired to coworker friends and supposedly they are working on it, but this was two years ago, so .....

 

shinyzen I feel you man, my work is 99% in Ableton, and it's really heavy, 30+ channels per session. But I don't use that much time based plugins, even if I use they are at the beginning of the chain on the single channel. I did the tests with plugins I use and posted above. As time goes and they are not fixing this I will probably switch to Bitwig or Cubase.

 

I've done the same, as that's what I did in the beginning.. and it works for me. I don't need Cableguys overladen stuff generally for what I'm doing...

shaperbox lol... I get why some like it.. but... yeah.. sigh..


And I'm sure I use 'some' plugins that are inclined to create latency, but when switching to mix mode or bouncing tracks to PT for others, no one has ever told me the tracks are off since V8.... and I've used PT for longer then 25 years myself lol... 30+.

And I don't like writing with it either, it doesn't think like I do, and I got into Ableton as it reminded me more of the extant Opcode's StudioVision, and sure, it has it's problems, and there are things I would love for them to fix/improve, but I guess using it for so long I'm just kinda on autopilot with my workarounds... whether it's nudging audio or whatever... and I have other daws that I use, but I just get on more with Ableton as I prefer to "write" with it... and when other people send me tracks, I always do my things with them, and export them to their PT sessions or whatever, and it's all good. I couldn't do what I like to do in PT myself.

Yeah, I'm not that into the acoustica stuff myself. either it's a 'taste' thing or whatever, and I've tried them and was all the rage 5-10 years ago, and I'm sure you have, and people who have invested in that system get a little "uad culty" about it sometimes.

And yeah, I don't think either one of us is saying Ableton has it all figured out.... just saying that the topic at hand hasn't been a big deal or noticeable for us other then knowing where possible landmines might be.., and while I haven't gotten that deep into v12 yet, it's because I'm putting together a new system, and dealing with the other apples in that equation...

Ableton has always had some issues with pdc since inception, and it used to be really bad. and all I can say is that since v8, I've been able to compensate (or rather, their software has for the most part), and I run some heavy sessions, and if I'm not mixing them myself, I have to provide deliverables that aren't f'd, and outside of certain plugins that I know are problematic and whatnot,... I haven't had any mix engineers calling me in the middle of the night about the tracks...

and I keep my system clean and not bogged with nonsense and am careful about what I am doing and putting in there.

And I too have met with the Ableton people on many occasions, and not someone in marketing, but devs and coders and higher ups... and I've laid out a list of my issues, and sometimes they are voluminous... and sometimes I hear back on that a month or two later, sometimes I don't. Sometimes everything is fixed. Sometimes/mostly it isn't. They have always kinda had their own priorities since they started, and yeah, I wish certain things were different.. and maybe in a month from now when I am neck deep in using v12 I will have my own new list of issues to throw on...

But whatever.

my sidechains are behaving as I would expect, and v12 so far seems to take what I toss at it, and plugin heavy sessions with a lot going on a per track basis (which is usually a tell with them and how they deal with it with assignment to cores and whatnot)..

hope you are well Arctic.

 

hello friends,
for the ones who still want to understand Ableton's PDC problem better, here is a video that may help you

 

It's not a problem

live is like that to allow live perfo so " ) yes great post