A jazz-influenced Thread

Discussion in 'Our Music' started by Introninja, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    key of C is CDEFGAB
    key of G is GABCDEF#

    this is how we get from C maj to G maj

    we play (key of C ) ii,V,I DFAC,GBDF,CEGB
    NEXT we play D7 , G7, to C7
    D7 is V of Gmaj, G7 is V of c maj, C7 is V of f maj

    we add the ii,V,I of each key
    (this is what we play)

    Amin7,{D7,Gmaj7, Dmin7,{G7,Cmaj7, Gmin7,{C7,Fmaj7

    that is how to get from C maj to Gmaj key and/or Fmaj key
    play through and see what those steps sound like and then add in diatonic alterations

    {I=iii=vi,(ii=IV),(V=vii%}
    diatonic alterations in key of C

    Cmaj=Amin=Emin, those are home
    Dmin=Fmaj those are subdom ( bit tension
    G7=Bmin7flat5 those most tense (away from home

    that is all 7 of your chords and modes for the key and what each chord does how it works

    you go from tension (away from home) to release to home ( the key itself) to create musical movement.
    this means IV, to V to I or because IV=ii

    {ii, V to I} ( to get minor sound in there also)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    the A min equivalent (relative minor to C major)
    is iim7flat5, V7, Imin

    in other words Bmin7flat5 BDFAC, to E7 (EG#BD), to Amin7 ACEG

    we have to turn the reg Emin7 EGBD phrygian into the V of A major E7 EG#BD

    (this is the connection to A major key the introduction of the G# note.)
    but now if we add the g#

    CDEFGG#ABC

    we get new chords as well the dim7 chords

    (B dim7 BDFG# (D dim7 DFG#B (F dim7 FG#BD (G#dim7 G#BDF

    (these dim7 chords are identical to each other just inversions)

    NOW, if we take ANY dim7 chord chord , first note resolves to the major key a whole step below.

    Bdim7 resolves to A maj KEY
    Ddim7 resolves to C maj KEY
    Fdim7 resolves to D# maj KEY
    G#dim7 resolves to F#maj KEY

    -----------------
    this is how to go from C major KEY to A maj, D#(Eflat maj) and F# major KEYS
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    if we then take the G# note

    and make a C augmented chord CEG#

    we can make a key out of each one of these C major, E major G# major

    we then add in a ii, V,I for each

    C major Dmin7,G7,Cmaj7,
    E major f#min7,B7, Emaj7
    G# maj A#min7,D#7,G#maj7


    now looking at the full progression WITH the notes shown in each chord shown

    Dmin7(DFAC,(G7(GBDF,Cmaj7(CEGB,
    F#min7(F#AC#E,(B7(BD#F#A,Emaj7(EG#BD#,
    A#min7(A#C#FG#,(D#7(D#GA#C#,G#maj7(G#CD#G

    and we compare the chords to each other form the 3 keys ( compared the ii's the v's and the I's to each other)

    (Dmin7(DFAC Fmaj7 (FACE Bmin7flat5( BDFA = Dmin6 DFAB)
    F#min7(F#AC#E
    A#min7(A#C#FG#

    the notes are all within a semitone of another from different keys ( this is why it works to go from Cmaj to E maj to G# major ( from dissonance to consonance ii,V to I

    when we piece the entire chord progression together
    ii,V,I of each key after another

    Dmin7(DFAC,(G7(GBDF,Cmaj7(CEGB,
    F#min7(F#AC#E,(B7(BD#F#A,Emaj7(EG#BD#,
    A#min7(A#C#FG#,(D#7(D#GA#C#,G#maj7(G#CD#G

    THIS is how to get from C major to E maj and G# maj keys

    this is all built right into the structure of music itself

    the final implications are that G maj, F maj, Amaj, D#maj, F# maj, E maj and G# maj KEYS
    ALL RESOLVE
    to C major key ( which is to say taking the ii, V of ANY of those keys resolves to C maj7 CEGB

    here is the visual chart of what i have demonstrated

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    THAT is when C maj KEY is the center key the same things works to make any other key the center key also ( to have the others keys reolve to that home key)

    [​IMG]
    and here is how all 12 keys resolve to any specific key ( of the 12keys)
    [​IMG]
    in conclusion

    this is how to get from all 12 keys to any one key center ( starting with C major as center)

    next you extend the process to make all 12 keys resolve to any one of the other 12, until you can make all 12 keys resolve to each one of the 12 one at a time.



    to travel to a key a fifth up or down from your root note key you take the ii, V I of your starting key and turn each chord into a dominant
    so C major KEY
    Dmin7 (ii, G7(V,Cmaj7(I becomes
    D7,G7,C7
    D7is V of Gmajor,G7 is V of C major, C7 is V of Fmajor

    we have traveled to the keys right next to each other
    Fmajor,Cmajor,Gmajor
    (THIS process works with any beginning key)

    we THEN looked at how to travel to keys (minor 3rd away

    this is taking our starting key C major and looking ar our ii V I (relative minor version)
    ii,V,I (amin is ABCDEFG)
    Bmin7flat5, E7, to Amin7

    the G# introduced in the E7 ( or as a flat 9 of our G7 in relative major C major CDEFGAB


    creates 4 dim7 chords

    B dim7, Ddim7,Fdim7, G#dim7

    they resolve down whole step ( because they act like a V chord
    it is how we go from C major key to D# major, F#major and A major

    lastly we seen how the C augmented chord CEG# can become its own 3 keys
    Cmajor,Emajor, G#major

    and using we we already learned from how to travel to get right next door this means we can go from any 12 keys resolve to C major (center key)

    after we practice getting used to do this (taking all 12 keys and resolving to C major key)
    we can have any other of the 12 keys as a center say G major key (all 12 keys resolving to g major key
    after we practice getting used to do this (taking all 12 keys and resolving to G major key)
    we can have any other of the 12 keys as a center say D major key (all 12 keys resolving to D major key
    after we practice getting used to do this (taking all 12 keys and resolving to D major key)
    we can have any other of the 12 keys as a center say A major key (all 12 keys resolving to A major key

    by the time we practice every key as the main center
    we will have the ability to begin with any key and have any of the 12 keys resolve to this center main key,
    finally we can have all 12 keys resolve to a key then switch to having all 12 keys resolve to another new key and then have all 12 keys resolve to another new center key
    [​IMG]
    this gives us the ability to have a center point , yet have all 12 keys relate to our center key, then even switch to a new key which all 12 keys center around that new one and so on until each of the 12 keys has been a center for which all 12 keys relate to.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  2. Blorg

    Blorg Producer

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    1. Make hand into claw, thumb on C, pointy finger on E, ring finger on G.
    2. Move hand up and down, bang bang bang, C major.
    3. To thrall audience with your musical prowess, move fingers to the right, D G B, respectively.
    4. Go bang bang bang. Nice! you're in G; girls swooning; not a dry seat in the house.

    That's the mechanics. Once this loses its charm (alas, it will...), you may wish to contemplate the reasons behind your need for making up pointless problems to solve. Solve, may I suggest, in the most unoriginal way -- procedurally, by following recipes, just like thousands who came before you have done. I won't bore you with platitudes about changing horses in the middle of the stream, but your unwillingness to make commitments -- any commitments, even seemingly simple ones, like committing to a key for a few minutes -- seems ...forget it, I already said too much, I shouldn't judge:mates:
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
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  3. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    lets judge the validity of your argument by looking at your spoken and written language.
    in this comment have you followed "Solve, may I suggest, in the most unoriginal way -- procedurally, by following recipes, just like thousands who came before you have done. I won't bore you with platitudes about changing horses in the middle of the stream,"?
    you use the same words everyone else has and does without ever inventing your own words or ways they actually fit together
    you create a unique message every time you write or speak, why? BECAUSE you are using the words we all do, BECAUSE you put them in a proper order we all recognize.( these tings do NOT impede ability to express yourself originally in any way)

    the same is identical with music. there is a way music works, a way the listener WILL be effected. you take your knowledge of how it all works (music) and just like with your spoken language NEVER invent new words or ways to arrange the words, you follow the language the way IT actually works in reality and by doing that create your own personal message that everyone can understand and see the uniqueness in
    this is how music works, you make it even though following the way it actually works, through the billions of options you find a unique way to express yourself and to be original.
    nobody ever had to create a new spoken language with new words new phonetics for them with new order of how they fit just to AVOID Solve, may I suggest, in the most unoriginal way -- procedurally, by following recipes, just like thousands who came before you have done. I won't bore you with platitudes about changing horses in the middle of the stream,"?
    it is dealing with music the way it actually exists as that we get listeners that enjoy it, that a unique message can come through.
    this has to so with the way our ears actually work. the way our brain interprets vibrations. and the way that music itself works.

    a question.

    can you call yourself a musician if you are not interested in the way music actually works?
    can you call yourself a brain surgeon, if you are not interested in the way the brain and body actually works?
    if a brain surgeon cares and studied about the brain the way it works, vs another one who didn't care about the way it actually worked, which one would you personally think of VALUES brain surgery more? was more passionate?

    besides this point there is one other misunderstanding you are having in your point.
    the information i have explained about changing keys above is not a recipe for people to follow to be un-original.
    it IS the way every song that has ever been written(using tonal music language ) ALREADY works, ( and will EVER be written)
    there is a distinct difference there.
    you can prove this to yourself by taking any existing song and reverse engineering it to exactly how it was written and it will be as i outlined.( unless one of the 3 other languages was used to write the song MODAL,POLYTONAL<ATONAL )the majority ARE tonal music language though.

    ( the only point to add is the process i have described above about changing keys, is a description of TONAL music.
    MODAL music, POLY-TONAL music and ATONAL music are 3 other totally different languages that each work unique and differently)
    you have 4 different music languages ( I outlined how to change keys in one particular TONAL music language in my above comment)that comment is specific information that demonstrably pertains to one topic HOW TO CHANGE KEYS IN TONAL MUSIC language ( that context is not applicable in the other 3 music languages if you want to write in any of those other 3, for those there is a different way EACH works.
    your mistake is taking my information out of context fine sir.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  4. Blorg

    Blorg Producer

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    Unsettling fact #1:
    People learn to talk by doing -- talking, not studying linguistics. It may appall you to learn that while some linguists do, indeed, publish, few publish classics, best-sellers or even something you buy at a kiosk to read on a plane. Sad but true.
    It is what it is. I bring it into being by making it.
    You want to know the definitive quality, the one thing that makes a brain surgeon a brain surgeon? Easy:
    The thing that makes a brain surgeon a brain surgeon is doing brain surgeries, that's what makes a brain surgeon a brain surgeon.
    A musician is someone who makes music. Let's hear yours :)
     
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  5. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    The only thing I'd care about the (tone-based) music knowledge is its tuning (based on the ratio 3/2 or whatever number discovered some millennia ago) and any other additional info is useless as a creator, unless you'd like to be closely allied to your favorite composer and make an incision and mimic him/her and I have not felt necessity to do it till now.

    If one day I'd determine to do that (almost unlikely), I will never try to deal with it man-made language-wise ly because the music doesn't have any language.
     
  6. BibouLeNoob

    BibouLeNoob Kapellmeister

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    Lol what was that ?

    Oh yeah, Foster being wrong and behaving like an ADHD kid again.
     
  7. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    i feel you meng. do it how you like to do it for sure
    im not into forcing people do something that didnt want to.
    (unlike some others out there)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    you originally talked about me describing that changing keys, ( the way music actually works) is somehow creating shit formulas for people that cant come up with things.

    i talked about your spoken languages aspect of how you dont invent words and the order they work in , you use the words that exist, next the order and way they fit together.

    your response

    "People learn to talk by doing -- talking, not studying linguistics. It may appall you to learn that while some linguists do, indeed, publish, few publish classics, best-sellers or even something you buy at a kiosk to read on a plane. Sad but true."

    what i described about changing keys in text format is called information. meaning a description what music is so you know what you can do. you were always going to change keys that way even if you never seen the info i posted.

    pertains to another aspects about doing. which yes you have to do for sure, but do what exactly?
    with the info i posted about changing keys i used written language to describe music language in a way to "DO it" based on the way music really works.
    the thing your missing is that the way music works is independent of a human perspective or a human mind , there is objective reality about the ways music works, then afterwards a human perspective uses their mind to attempt to make music.

    IF there was a person that didnt know how music worked and they just had to guess to try things what probability would they have of guessing right? as opposed to being able to do what they wanted right out the gate no guess work?

    sure you yourself can choose ignorance over knowledge.
    i choose knowledge over ignorance in every situation my pea brain can manage.
    ( we have pea brain ,compared to realitys perspective itself)


    the whole topic also depends on what you think of music as.

    to you is music a bunch of sound vibrations?
    to me that is just "sound"
    aspects and qualities of sound. the thing that makes music what it actually is "to me" is that music is a specific language ( actually 4 languages TONAL,MODAL,POLYTONAL<ATONAL )

    to me the "smoke on the water "riff is not music

    what would be music is every possible version of smoke on the water riff, every possible variation of it THAT is music.

    me describing how to change keys in tonal language.
    is me describing how tonal languages exists independent of human experience.
    there is no connection to a human being unless they want to use that information themselves, so if you dont want to use it, there is no connection to you and the info there about how music exists in reality as. (regarding changing keys)

    your reading a thread about making JAZZ which has a strong music component (dosnt have to though)
    so, there are some that are going to want to know how to do something, they dont already know how to do, i posted the information about changing keys for those people only, not to tell others that know how and what they want to do, that they need to change what they want and do what i want them to.
    when you get into how to make all 12 keys resolve to Cmaj KEY ( or any other one of them) you cannot accidentally get there or guess to get there, you need INFORMATION so i posted it for those that interested in how to do that.
    all the cavemen never accidentally meditated and guess the way cellular biology works ( or microbes or viruss) there are components to reality you need to LEARN, because it to complex to guess at and life is to short. the most advanced aspects of music can never be guessed it too complex you have to LEARN the way it works.( only if you care to and in fact only if you a truly passionate about dedicated to learning it beyond reason)those tings can never just be guess or thow your fingers mechanically and accidentally learn the equivalent of cellular biology by meditating in a cave.
    of course you can avoid learning music in all ways
    copy sounds you heard before instead
    ( truly copy exactly what your heard before by others imitation)
    you can only imitate sounds that way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  8. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    The wrongest assumption ever.:yes:
     
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  9. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    Everything depends on everything. The past people's experimentations with notes never converts it into an undeniable fact.
    Experimentation ≠ Factuality
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2018
  10. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    what is the assumption and what is wrong?

    why are you talking about people and what they did? (has nothing to do with how music works)
    [​IMG]





     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  11. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    I want to be ignorant than delving into the Jazz world.:lmao: In my ignorance I'm much more creative and satisfied. Destructive Jazz has been introduced to bottle up the human's strong emotions. :boombox:
     
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  12. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    i thought you would like bille holiday, much more simplistic tunes but very good.

     
  13. Blorg

    Blorg Producer

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    Gimme a pigfoot/and a bottle of gin :woot: It's not just gin you crave, Billie, did a stretch for heroin if I'm not mistaken? Lessee... yes, yes you did. But did that teach you a lesson? ooooh no! Got popped for dope again. In a hospital. On your deathbed.
    [​IMG]
    Like a child star, jazz peaked early & hard; it's been all downhill from there.

     
  14. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    Reverting back to the former traditions exists in all countries and of course in most situations including the music, you can find very deep examples there but Jazz is not my ultimate shelter to retrogress. Maybe I'd love to raise my musical knowledge according and conformable to your standards to reach 1/100 of you but absolutely Jazz is not a land that I'd like to come down to test them.:rofl:
     
  15. mozee

    mozee Audiosexual

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    * You guys getting carried away... a bit maybe?


    No longer salient since the posts were moved to a new thread - by all means argue away till you either get tired of it or just agree that you just might never agree.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
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  16. Introninja

    Introninja Audiosexual

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    I agree although you are on topic your sliding off the intentions of the thread. Please Cease from your opinion and just disagree to agree and lets make this album happen. Cheers
     
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  17. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    lol holy sheepshit


    peaked early and died hard? really?

    160 years is peaking early?

    here is a 100 year old jazz song recording.


    the genre is 60 years older than this recording

    RETARD"Like a child star, jazz peaked early & hard; it's been all downhill from there."

    160 years is peaking early?

    name the age of your favorite genre,

    tink before you speak haha

    p.s. your white supremesist horseshit is for a coward braindead

    name a family member of yours from 100 years ago , that is still known about today, like bille holiday.

    your ignorance is hilarious,

    your nickname is "tiny" from now on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  18. Blorg

    Blorg Producer

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    "The use of the word in a musical context was documented as early as 1915 in the Chicago Daily Tribune.[8] Its first documented use in a musical context in New Orleans was in a November 14, 1916 Times-Picayune article about "jas bands."[9]"--wikipedia
    Yeas, just like child stars, jazz was popular in its day (the 1920s, aka The Jazz Age). Today, jazz is roughly as relevant as teh Georgian chant, and almost as popular as waltzes/polkas. Almost.
    Proof: The vids of jazz greatness you keep posting? All are by people who are long dead.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    OK but everyone must promise me that the next album to be modernity-influenced ... Sticking to the past is enough. TBH, I don't see the footprint of modernism's concepts in the songs.:lmao:
     
  20. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    TINY,
    you are the one here.....

    on a jazz thread. that you hate so much.
    what are you accomplishing right now being here?





    since you dont like to research


    that doc can get you started learning the history of jazz ( beginning 1800's


    now im going to remind you, you made a comment that


    TINY"Like a child star, jazz peaked early & hard; it's been all downhill from there.

    no matter how you slice it jazz is at least 100 years old, this fact refutes your comment.
    there are genres that last 5 years 10 years 20 years but how many last 100 years and longer?

    do i need to spell it out?
    how can a "child star" be over 100 years old?

    you are not evaluating the validity of your thoughts before you decide to go along with them and then post comments impulsively.( differentiating between fantasy and reality)
    this is no virtue TINY:( can't differentiate between fiction from non-fiction in your thoughts)

    it is important to have your thought process know that fiction and non-fiction are opposite from each other, fantasy and reality are not related.
    for example imagine creating a fictional charactor within your thoughts right this moment, but then caring as deep about them as a real person that exists that you deeply love.
    this demonstrates the importance.

    poor TINY :C







     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
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