16 bit or 24 bit ?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by GokhanH33, Mar 26, 2023.

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  1. GokhanH33

    GokhanH33 Ultrasonic

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    Do you render your final mix and master at 16 bit or 24 bit? Which is better for mp3 compression?
     
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  3. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

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    I stay out of samplerate arguments, but bit depth? Always 24 unless (and until) it's going to cd.
     
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  4. 5teezo

    5teezo Audiosexual

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    16 Bit is only required when burning an Audio CD, since the Red Book CD standard doesn't support 24 bit.

    If you need to compress audio, you should use something better than mp3. Like Ogg Vorbis or AAC.
     
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  5. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    I do both 24bit and 16bit (edit: as a mastering engineer. Two file options). 24bit (144dB of DR) for upload and 16bit (96dB of DR) for burning your CD. In this day and age no one will notice if it's 16bit upload, unless it's a very dynamic song/album (like classical music or very dynamic jazz). But people instictively think 24bit is "audibly better", even though they can't tell the difference between 16 and 24bit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2023
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  6. mondomorte

    mondomorte Producer

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    I make techno / idm stuff and have long used 44.1 / 16bit to no discernible effect - and when I say not discernible, I mean that no one, from fans to label heads to mastering engineers have ever complained that they could hear the noise floor or any extraneous aliasing in the high freqs.

    I'd say (as many others might do) it is somewhat genre / material specific. For classical music, certain ambient recordings, or sound design (specifically where material might require drastic changes in pitch) higher dynamic range and high frequency bandwidth might be worth the extra consideration.

    Another matter which may come into play is if you are a commercial producer or engineer and clients at any point in the chain of transmission might expect a certain technical standard.
     
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  7. Barmaley (covid edition)

    Barmaley (covid edition) Kapellmeister

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  8. Dan Fuerth

    Dan Fuerth Kapellmeister

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    "In 1981, as Mitsubishi began delivering its X-800 digital 32-tracks, Sony countered with its PCM-3324 digital 24-track, which was two years from shipping. The original 44.1/48kHz, 16-bit PCM-3324 weighed 440 pounds, but had a maximum record time of 65 minutes and could easily be synched for 48-track work. Even with its $150,000 price tag, the PCM-3324 found early adopters such as Stevie Wonder, Frank Zappa and remote trucks, and a new industry emerged offering digital rentals"

    We have been suckered into this nonsense when almost every Professional Studio for the since 1981 to 2000 was using these systems

    When you run tracks through a $200,000 console and outboard gear then record it into these beasts THAT IS WHAT THE PRO SOUND IS recorded on DIGITAL PCM format since 1981.

    https://www.mixonline.com/technology/1981-sony-pcm-3324-383671
    So basically we have been lied to for decades and this technology was kept out of the lower pro markets for decades to protect Studios. They recorded to Tape but was Digital PCM, while the masses got stuck with the crap tech.

    This is why the Patent and Monopoly laws need to be changed, stagnating technology should be a crime and an auto loss of any patents.

    Sony basically had a monopoly on Multitrack digital recording from 1983 to basically the year 2000. Until multitrack interfaces started to come and ended their moronic monopoly.

    Best thing is recorded at what your interface can handle to track without maxing your project.

    48 khz is good enough if your source material is leveled properly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2023
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  9. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

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    I actually agree with that. BUT- going 24 doesn't eat that much extra drive space and it's objectively better, and better is better. So just do it :rofl::wink:
     
  10. trz303

    trz303 Platinum Record

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    My default standard is 48khz/24bits.
    But as far as 44.1/16 is the Cd standard, it is more compatible.
    it depends on what you are doing with your files. If it's just for personal use, then go 48/24.
    If it's for distribution (web, promotion) then go for 44.1/16.
    Most web services are converting anything to 44.1/16.
     
  11. noise.maker

    noise.maker Platinum Record

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    Always render at the samplerate and bitdepth at which you have the project in the DAW. Keep the version. From there you can convert to whatever format you want. Important: keep the version with the same quality as the current project.
     
  12. chard

    chard Newbie

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    Not a huge deal either way. I stay in 24 bit and let mastering deal with it.
    If you go to 16 Bit, though, make sure you apply dither.
     
  13. pratyahara

    pratyahara Guest

  14. MdB

    MdB Guest

    24bit mp3 doesnt make sense imho
    btw, whats a cd in 2023 ?
     
  15. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    Dither to 16 or 24 bit when you go from 32 bit or 64 bit (both float or integer/fixed).
    24 bit dithered is safer than 24 bit undithered. It is better for further processing, or monitoring.
    You may also use 24 bit dithering on output always while monitoring, because if you have 24bit DAC (not 32,if it is not a marketing BS) it will reduce bit depth from your 32/64 DAW audio to 24 bit. No too much difference ot even no, but slightly safer!
    Convert mp3 from 32bit or 64 bit float without dithering. Sometimes (depends on codec etc) mp3 is floating point, tails become not noisy if you add too much gain, but some editors may open another way.
     
  16. Axvap

    Axvap Ultrasonic

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    Yeah, and 32bits is objectively better than better. 64bits is even better than better than better. Why not go straight 128bit, it must be the best! But seriously 24 or 16 doesn't matter, just don't bother use whatever you like, even 8bit samples. Scientifically 16bit 44.100 is more than a bandwidth a human brain can precif. 24bit is an excessive. And no one except few individuals with a top of the art Hi-Fi on a very specific material will be able to hear a difference. For 99.999% of those who will listen to your music its nonissue and the rest 00.001% might be curies for the sake of asking.
     
  17. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    Personally, for real normal loud listening (final mastered), imho 19-21 bits (dithered) are enough to save all these quiet tails. 24 is too much.... Noises, hums, background noise, aliasing and distortions are usually way louder.
    64, 32, 80, 117, 128,256 bits are usually for accurate internal processing, to avoid adding all those small digititis, avoid clipping internally etc....
     
  18. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    24 Bit - Best tattooed on the back of the hand.
    This is, as always, an eternal endless discussion.
     
  19. nctechno

    nctechno Kapellmeister

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    Nah 16 Bit is only 96dB thats far less then humans can process, human hearing is about 140dB
     
  20. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

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    Because, as you essentially point out, you enter a point of diminishing returns. I don't think 24bit is beyond that point, but at it. I'd happily record at 16/44 and not lose sleep but I think the dynamic range at 24 is worth it and it's not a resource killer.
     
  21. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    As I said, I already export both 24bit and 16bit by default (as a mastering engineer).
    So it's not about disk space (anymore). It's about the option to offer files for direct CD-making if needed. I also create a DDP ofc, if needed.

    When I do mixing work I export mixes in 24bit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2023
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