I have just got the project with the automation on the track faders. I wanted to copy the automation to the Utility Gain and ... I am getting different values. -15 dBFS becomes -1.75 dB, -17 dBFS = -5.25 dB. How to calculate dBFS to dB? Shall I use a percentage? -infinity to 0dBFS is 100% and -inifity to 0 dB or +35dB is 100%?

PS. Sorry, yes, I mean Ableton Live 12. That's why I am in Live's threads. I mean the conversion of the automation of the track fader to the Utility Gain. I want to keep the fader at Unity Gain and automate tha Gain.

 

Last edited: Jul 12, 2026 at 5:08 PM

there is so much unclear in that question that i would not know what first to ask back for.

 

I guess OP is trying to copy automation from the track fader to the utility plugin, but since the track fader and utility plugin have different ranges, a simple copy/paste does not work. I´m not on my music computer now, but I´d simply redraw the automation...I mean, I guess you could calculate it, but you´d have to scale each automation lane by hand anyway.

Or maybe put it in a rack and scale the macro so that the range is similar to the track fader. That might actually work. You set the negative and positive range just like they are on track fader.

You´re talking about Ableton Live, right?

 

Last edited: Jul 12, 2026 at 4:59 PM

The digital scale is called DBFs, or decibel full scale, with a maximum numerical value or digital maxim at 0dbfs.
dB by itself expresses a ratio, not an absolute level.
The suffix is necessary because decibels need a reference point. “−10 dB” is incomplete unless we know: 10 dB below what?
The analog scale, measured in dBu, hasn't got a fixed ceiling but is rather dictated by the system's maximum output before clipping.

My point is that all digital DBs sound the same.
The different values appear because the DAW is probably copying the automation as a normalized parameter position rather than copying the displayed dB value. The channel fader and Utility Gain have different ranges and possibly different nonlinear response curves. For example, one may range from −∞ to +10 dB while the other ranges from −∞ to +35 dB.

What I would do is route the audio to new tracks and hide the old tracks with automation.

 

@Lonely_Avatar Thanks, it is a good idea, like bouncing it to audio. Regarding my automation problem, I have done it manually. Copying the automation envelope can cause problems due to parameter scaling. So changing the values of the breakpoints is necessary. It is a valuable experience for me after so many years using Live

By the way, I don't understand why balancing volume with the Utility is preferred by some over the faders. The peak/RMS meter shows the same output values using either method. The mixing desks have faders/pots for this. Actually, they have, but for the input gain at the beginning of the strip.

 

Last edited: Jul 12, 2026 at 7:59 PM

Unless I'm missing something on reading quickly through this, for me at least, dating way back with Ableton, Utility is better to change/automate gain/volume levels (despite different scale, and had a long history of not going to 0, edit add: apparently still only goes down to -35 dB, which is head scratching) over using the track level, as rebalancing and other production tasks are far easier addressed in that regard.

Of course one could use a group or other things, (I could be missing something here in your alternative means explanation )...

and I could be just a victim of long term habits with Ableton and mixing/balancing with it and something could have slipped past the goalie on me, but I just got in practice of doing it with a Utility, as getting so many overblown sessions from people etc, (and with collaborators I would send/build them a template and explain it and the "why")... and say I wanted to bring down a bunch of different tracks etc, it is, or just was, a lot easier to do so with the track volume (with automation on the Utility), as it would retain it's relativity....

it just has fewer issues or disruptions.

 

Main advantage is that you can see levels of all (or at least many) tracks at once and quickly adjust levels while keeping your fades and volume automation.

 

Yeah, my usual Utility use per track in Ableton is to have one instantiated first in the chain to gain stage into whatever fx/plugs come thereafter, and then have one LAST in the chain to utilize for volume/pan automation. Also good for checking mono compatibility, phase, and a host of other Swiss army knife type tasks.

Easily my most used device in Ableton for that reason.