Hey guys, i was doing a temporary master (just to get a sense of how it would be after mastered) an EDM track, with influences from Martin Garrix, Hardwell, etc. ... So far everything is normal, compression, equalization .. . but then came a doubt, i usually cut the subs, something around 30 Hz .. but do not know if this applies to EDM, exceptionally the case of Big Room, where there is no bass on the drop, just the kick ...

I thank you already!

 

i usually do cut low frequencies around 75Hz some times up to 125Hz and even 200, it depends on the synth and what's doing in the track...

about big room, the kick plays Kick & Bass role at the same time, so first of all you need a long and a strong sidechaining (still depends on your track) cut it low freq. of all synth around 75Hz & try...

 

Oh yes, a layered kick, of curse, but no Bassline at all... but i'm afraid lose that drop impact by cutting low end too much... And yes, i do cut low frequencies of individual instruments that doesn't needs those frequencies while mixing, but on the mastering i think less is more...

 

I'd cut (high pass) at least up to 30-something... With a 1-2 o'clock Q.

Also, why no bass? There was at least some semi-sub bass in most of what I tried to listen to from what you mentioned.

 

Club systems start to roll off at 30 HZ, so be free to cut

 

Why don't you try to use a spectrum analyser on your favorite tracks ??

 

This is the usual sh*tstorm thread

There are several reasons to ALWAYS cut the subs, but at different frequencies each time (use freq tools, knowledge and ears to set it):
-very low subs are like dark matter in the universe : they eat all your mix energy for breakfast, even if you don't ear them. A simple 25Hz kick rumble can split your overhead in half...you loose half of your mix energy for (almost) nothing because (almost) no one will hear it in the whole world.
-streaming engines and MP3 compressors low cut subs to gain bandwidth. It can be at 45Hz,30Hz,20Hz....or not at all,depending on engine settings.
-most CD players low cut (like butchers) at 20Hz because anything under 20Hz is considered like artifact by them, like anything over 20kHz (Redbook CD specs).
-you'd better do the job YOURSELF instead of letting any hardware/other ppl do it afterward, and mess your balance job.

And the famous last one : most consumer systems don't go under 45Hz. And even most good club PA are around 30Hz.

You definitely need to cut whatever argument ppl with no knownledge and "low cut is for lamers !" attitude raise ;)
When something doesn't serve a mix, it needs to be cut.

Side info : modern dance music is around 4.5dB per octave spectrum. Admit 1kHz is the 0 reference, it means (average values, of course) :
500Hz will be +4.5d
250Hz +9dB
125Hz +13.5dB
62Hz +18dB
31Hz +22,5dB
15Hz +27dB
7Hz +31,5dB

Each 3dB, you DOUBLE energy. Simplified, it means you need 31,5/3= 10 times more energy to deliver 7Hz than your base 1kHz.
And still 7 times for 30Hz.

Now you understand why on a 2x500W PA stereo, going from 80Hz to 20kHz (almost all human hearing bandwidth), you need a 1000W mono sub just to deliver a tiny 30Hz to 80Hz bandwidth

Conlusion : cut between 20Hz and 45Hz, according to your taste,tools and tune

And most important : never listen to ppl saying low cut is not so useful, or worst, useless. They don't know sh*t
I've never seen a serious mastering eng not doing any kind of low cut, like minimum 20Hz. Most even high cut at 18kHz-20kHz to prevent harsh frequencies generated by streaming/MP3 compression

 

always depends the material, even the tone of the music.
When I can I use hipass and low pass in almost every channel, subs ans aux included.
This is more inportant in large instrumentation because needs to open space.
More sounds = need more space = must be more specialized

 

Yeah I definitely agree with a lot of what the guys here are saying. Low cutting is extremely important I can't stress that enough. If you listen carefully to modern EDM tracks from the producers that you mentioned, you'll notice there's actually barely any sub bass frequencies in the mix. The fact that these songs are mastered so loud means there's no room for these frequencies to be there, they take up way too much headroom and contribute very little to the actual music. I've analyzed tracks and some of them are low cut as high as 60-70Hz.

Most of the low frequency energy in these songs is in the 100-200Hz region. That's why you can hear the bass loud and clear. If all that energy was below 100Hz you'd feel the bass more than hear it.

So the short answer is a definite yes for low cutting. You need to low cut pretty much everything, especially if you want to master for loudness. Even kick samples need to be low cut. A lot of times you might think "well it's a sample so it's gotta be perfectly EQ'd and everything." That's not true at all, even samples and processed sounds might need some extra processing.

 

Always depends about frequency and slope for sure...but NOT about cutting or not.
OP was about mastering, so YES, need to cut for sure.
Between 20Hz and 45Hz. Under 20Hz, most systems will simply cut themselves. And over 45Hz, you loose too much body(to me again, but i'm sure some ppl cut at 60Hz).

Club PA cut between 30 and 45Hz. Everything under 30Hz is simply useless, and even worse, will create major troubles with bass reflex subwoofers under their ported frequency...witch is between 30-45Hz .

Serious PA systems cut the signal BEFORE any amplification. Less serious just let the signal pass through, and so saturate the subwoofer amplifier...and let the ported frequency cut it after it messed the whole bass content. And sometimes, those subwoofers simply...burn Because anything under this ported frequency can't go out, and so speaker burn, with amplifier too, sometimes.

example at home : some ppl think their Logitech subwoofer really go down to 20Hz because it is written on it. They push a 20Hz sine inside, it saturate and so create overtones at 40Hz,80Hz...freqs. They hear those freqs, think it works...and it burns because 20Hz fundamental can't be generated.

Letting sub frequencies in a mix is not bad only because no one will hear them. It is bad because it mess the whole mix energy, and can even damage a bad PA system in certain conditions.

Ps : i totally agree with previous fuad post Analyzing existing tracks can help a lot.

 

I lowcut everything (HPF or low shelving cut on group) except the bass, subkick, kick, low toms, etc. That way they are alone down there and don't have to be fighting for space with all the rest (synths, pads, leads, snares, risers, vocals, etc etc).

Then I mono the low-end under a certain frequency (as subs are omni-directional)and also lowcut at 30Hz on the mastering, i.e DC offset removal and removal of things that doesn't need to be there. Same with high-end roll-off.