Hi,in a tutorial the guy says make sure bass level is AVERAGING about -20 dB.
in cubase 14 pro on channel window how can i check average level?
On the right zone meter(master tab) is it the RMS Ma?

 

Open the mixer and see if the faders are hitting -20dbfs. This is only a guideline, though, some people will go as high as -12dbfs as long as the signal is not clipping.

Edit: to be clear, the fader metering, not the fader position.

 

That must be -20dB RMS, could peak up to about -12dBfs depending on how much you compress it. It's a good value so you never have to worry about the headroom and mix in peace.

 

Yeah, you're on the right track - in Cubase Pro 14, the RMS value in the right zone meter (Master tab) shows the average level. If it says "RMS Max" or "RMS," that’s what you want to look at for the average loudness over time.

 

Actually there is no fixed value on the input volume: the digital recording volume has its limit in the bitrate used by the audio interface: 16bit has 96db max, 24bit has 144db. Depending on the bitrate, a different clipping value corresponds.
Technology is running: at the beginning we recorded in 12bit, then in 16bit and in 24bit: we now have the 32bit floating point technology coming and this means having 1528db on input: this value exceeds any real-world sound pressure variations. In simple words, this is the end of clipping during recording.
At the moment, 32bit is mainly used on movie sets, when there can be drastic variations on the sound pressure (imagine a dialog and then a jet passing by). From what I know, there are a couple of brands that already produce field recording devices in native 32bit: Zoom and Tascam. There is an audio interface from Zoom, dedicated specifically to the 32bit recording studio, but I have not had the pleasure of testing it.
The future is obviously in 32bit floating point
https://www.zoom-europe.com/en/audio-interfaces/zoom-uac-232-c

 

Last edited: Jun 8, 2025 at 9:34 PM

There is no "formula" for this - it's way too subjective. Does it sound balanced? If not, then you need to act accordingly, and not adhere to some kind of "method" for setting levels. If you do, it's guaranteed your mix will come out sounding messy.

 

I have had one of these for a couple of years now. They are little audio recording powerhouses. I walk around with that audio pack, cans, and a mic and I hardly even know I'm carrying anything. I have used it for field audio for video (it does SMPTE directly) and for audio sample gathering. The audio inputs on those are clean enough to use in studio as a recording interface and you are correct - it will record up to 96Khz in full 32bit. I have never gotten back and had a recording that was unusable from that device.

 

This it bit depth, bit rate is SF X bit depth X number of channels, it measures a data flow.

Converters clip when the voltage they measure exceeds what they can handle. So, a converter clips at the same level either in 24 or 16 or 12 bit. What better bit depth brings is a lower noise floor and the ability to record avoiding clipping by settting a lower average level. Bigger Bit depth dosent add headroom but what could be called 'footroom'. It doesnt change anything about the highest recordable level, it just reproduces lower levels.

Unfortunately, Zoom doesnt give any technical details about its 32FP ADC. I'm neither electronics engineer nor converter designer, but I think that a floating point converter is impossible.
As clipping occurs at a fixed voltage in the analog side of the ADC, I dont see how a floating point converting stage could work.

In 32 bit float, the audio signal is 24 bit and the 8 remaining bit are a mantissa which allows the 24 bit signal to exceed its theorical range.
I think that the Zoom 32FP ADC is in fact a 32 bit fixed point ADC with an automatic input gain and further floating point processing. 32 bit fixed point has 192 dB dynamic range, a lot more than any analog input stage. It may automatically adjust at a relatively low gain, ensuring that no clipping will happen and then recode this signal (where the max level is far below the clipping point) into 32 bit float audio data.

As I said, I'm no specialist, what I think may be wrong and I'd love to see some people who actually knows to chime in.

 

It totally depends on the mix, genre, amout of elements, etc. There is no "mix by numbers". Simple gain-staging along with good mixing will determine the "correct" level of bass.

 

Yes, maybe I didn't express myself in a very technical way but we're talking about the same thing: 32bit floating point is the end of clipping. I've never used one of these new audio interfaces and I can't testify if they work or not, but I have confidence in technology and I think we'll get there anyway

 

if someone is reading or watching a tutorial, following along so they learn some new things; the correct numbers are whatever the course presenter says they are. It's like learning to cook. You can take 20 great recipes and randomly use steps and measurements from all 20 of them, and you will cook junk. 100% of the time.

If you screw with them, everything else he is trying to learn will need to be adjusted for that. How does RMS -20 on a bass track turn into diatribe about 32bit sessions? If you skip to the busiest, loudest parts of a track, you will see where the bass will be peaking. This presenters gain staging probably wants things dialed in to peak at -18dB. So why are you even discussing when it is going to clip? You have gain staged the entire project like this to give yourself headroom to just mix without worrying about distortion or clipping.

These tangents happen because people do not even bother to read the first post.

 

Spoiler: Source: Grok KI

To check the average mixing track level (RMS) in Cubase 14 Pro, particularly for ensuring your bass level averages around -20 dB as mentioned in the tutorial, you can use the channel meters or the Statistics function. Here's how to do it:

1. Channel Window Meters:
   • In Cubase 14 Pro, the MixConsole channel meters display peak levels by default, but they also show RMS (Root Mean Square) levels, which represent the average loudness over a short time window (typically 300 ms). The RMS level is indicated by a horizontal bar on the meter, usually lower than the peak level and displayed in the colored section of the meter.
   • To view this in the channel window:
     • Open the MixConsole (F3 or via the Studio menu).
     • Locate the bass track’s channel.
     • Observe the meter. The RMS level is the horizontal bar (often blue) that moves more slowly than the peak level (gray or green). This bar reflects the average loudness.
     • To ensure the bass is averaging around -20 dB RMS, adjust the fader or use plugins (e.g., compressor or gain) while monitoring this bar. Note that the meter may not display a precise numerical RMS value, so you may need to estimate based on the visual indication or use additional tools for precision.
2. Right Zone Meter (Master Tab):
   • You mentioned the "RMS Ma" on the right zone meter in the Master tab. In Cubase, the Master Meter in the right zone (accessible via the MixConsole or Project window’s right zone) shows both peak and RMS values. The "RMS Ma" (Maximum RMS) indicates the highest RMS value reached during playback, which is useful for assessing the loudness of the master output but not necessarily the individual bass track.
   • To check if this is suitable for your bass track:
     • If you’re routing the bass track directly to the stereo out, the Master Meter’s RMS reading might reflect its contribution. However, since other tracks also feed into the master, it’s not ideal for isolating the bass track’s RMS level.
     • The RMS Ma value is a peak hold value, not a real-time average, so it may not directly help you confirm a consistent -20 dB RMS for the bass. Instead, focus on the individual channel meter for the bass track.
3. Using the Statistics Function for Precise RMS:
   • For a more accurate RMS measurement of the bass track:
     • Select the bass audio event or clip in the Project window.
     • Go to Audio > Statistics (available in Cubase Pro). This opens a window showing detailed metrics, including the Average Loudness (per AES17 standard) and Max RMS for the selected audio.
     • The Average Loudness value is the RMS level averaged over the entire selection, which is ideal for confirming if your bass track averages around -20 dB. If it’s too high or low, adjust the track’s fader or use a gain plugin and recheck.
4. Using SuperVision or Third-Party Plugins:
   • Cubase 14 Pro includes the SuperVision plugin, which offers advanced metering options, including RMS.
     • Insert SuperVision on the bass track’s insert slot.
     • Configure it to display RMS levels (you can choose time windows like 300 ms for momentary RMS or longer for integrated RMS).
     • Adjust the track’s level to hit around -20 dB RMS as shown in SuperVision’s meter.
   • Alternatively, use third-party plugins like Youlean Loudness Meter (free) or FabFilter Pro-L for precise RMS and loudness metering.
5. Tips for Achieving -20 dB RMS:
   • Use a compressor with a gentle ratio (e.g., 1.5:1 to 2:1), slow attack, and longer release to smooth out the bass dynamics, then adjust the makeup gain to target -20 dB RMS.
   • Check pre-fader or post-fader metering in the MixConsole (right-click a fader to toggle). Pre-fader shows the input level before processing, while post-fader includes inserts and fader adjustments, which may be more relevant for your mix.
   • If the RMS is too low (e.g., -25 dB), increase the gain or compression; if too high, reduce the fader or apply limiting.

Note on RMS Ma: The RMS Ma in the Master Meter is not the best tool for checking the bass track’s average level, as it reflects the maximum RMS of the entire mix, not individual tracks. Focus on the channel meter’s RMS bar or the Statistics function for accuracy.

If you need a visual representation of the bass track’s RMS over time, let me know, and I can generate a chart showing typical RMS and peak levels for a bass track, or I can guide you further on setting up SuperVision!