Terrible illustration or analogy.
That does not explain blind pianists like Marios Papadopoulos who was founder and music director of the Oxford Philharmonic Orchestra or Noboyuki Sujii, ort Helene Alexandra de Montgeroult - all excellent classical pianists and ALL BLIND. You are almost assuming that someone cannot memorize an entire symphony by ear and that is a massive faux pas if you are. They built and made a plan to do it and because only they could see it in their head, being blind, does not mean it did not exist.

There are many ways to look at music not only two. In their case they could not look at notation because they were blind. You must be FOSTER

P.S. - Nobuyuki Tsujii, blind from birth, developed extraordinary musical skills by learning to play the piano by ear and memorizing scores. His talent and perseverance led him to win the prestigious Van Cliburn International Piano Competition in 2009.

 

Last edited: Apr 16, 2025 at 1:20 PM

There are always exceptions. I just wrote those sentences as a general rule. Also, those people you mentioned had teachers who had access to sheets and taught their students through them. Even if a person has never seen a single sheet in their life, they have been taught by people who have seen those sheets. Now, what their exact training method was or how these people go about making music can be a subject of research for people who are interested in these topics.
I don't know why you insist on going against the prevailing rules. Well, if you're not interested in sheets, then don't do it, no one is forcing you to do anything.

 

RE-READ THIS

Nobuyuki Tsujii, blind from birth, developed extraordinary musical skills by learning to play the piano by ear and memorizing scores. His talent and perseverance led him to win the prestigious Van Cliburn International Piano Competition in 2009.

- do you understand remotely what learning by ear means? My mother could play Mendelssohn piano pieces and never had one lesson her entire life but had incredible memory and ears and a love of music. She'd listen to a record, hum along with it, then go and play it. There are many like that in the world. To assume because you and others cannot or do not, so therefore nobody else can, is pure ignorance.

I go against what you call the prevailing rules, which they aren't, because I learned them decades ago and you're not even close FOSTER.

- doing what I should have three posts ago, ignoring you.

 

Last edited: Apr 16, 2025 at 2:01 PM

Why do we fight at all?
We have 4 organs involved in making music: hands, ears, eyes, brain. Each of these plays its own part. The hands and brain are essential organs and cannot be left out. As for the ears and eyes, if one of them is not working properly, the other member must make up for it.
I personally believe that hands and brains are enough and there is no need for ears and eyes. But for complex pieces, you definitely need an eye and the ear should only be present as an onlooker, and its presence or absence is not very important. Ears are more beneficial for listeners to listen to and enjoy the pieces being played.
Now, if a person doesn't trust their eyes much and expects all tasks from their ears, you can't fault them. If this method works for them, then use it.

 

Reading music will make you a better musician is fallacy.
As a background about myself. I can read music, I am a university graduate that studied as a Jazz guitar major. I've been working as a Performer and music teacher for the the last 29 years.

When I was in Uni in the 90's, I studied privately with a couple of Toronto's hot shot guitarist's.
The first was a phenomenal R&B/Funk player and the second was a rock guitarist by the name of Phil X (Formerly of Bon Jovi).
Both of them were leaders in the city for there genres of music.
Neither of them could read music. This was very frustrating as I had lots of questions which I believe could only be answered by music theory.

Both of them said. Spend a significant time to work on techniques required for their particular genres. Learn to play as many songs from their genres, even if you don't like them... and focus on situational playing.

It's the situational playing that was the most impactful.
If you suck at comping over a chord progression.. Then you need to use jam tracks and practice only comping...
If you suck at improvising over the IV chord on a blues... then use jam tracks to practice practice only the transitions in and out of the IV chord.

These guys weren't brain surgeons... They just knew what needed to be done to get to a professional level of playability for their genres.
We used to call it "The school of hard knocks". Which is learning by experience not formal education.

I am not knocking literacy in Music. I'm teaching my self piano. I'm doing my Royal Conservatory classical Pianos grades without a teacher. I am passing my exams. Why? because I can read music and I have strong music theory background.

I would recommend that everyone learns to read music at some point on their music journey.
What most people forget is that music is language.
When a child born, the child will begin communicating by yelling, crying & waving there limbs.
These are are physical and auditory forms of communication.
Over the next few years they will begin to understand & speak the language.
After 4-5 years of life... then we teach them to read.

Let this sink in...
The child has learned to listen and speak the language for a few years before they have a book thrown in front of them.
They have learned over time to experiment how to answer back to questions.

Music is no different.
Go to a piano, Learn chords and basic scales... Play lots of popular songs (probably badly) using chords with the records.
Then a time will come, when you realize.. Hey.. I think I've hit a plateau and I will need more knowledge.
At this point learning theory and how to read may help the situation.

The goal is always progress at your instrument and to challenge yourself.
If you really want to get better.. then you have to work for it.

 

Last edited: Apr 16, 2025 at 3:25 PM

i don't fully agree with the "you have to work for it", its inspiration too i guess, it may come from partying, or having a life too

as the singer of Goo goo dolls said......people tell me to write another Goo goo dolls - Iris , but i don't know how to do it

at 00:36

 

Last edited: Apr 16, 2025 at 3:37 PM

Jazz logic is different.

 

It's good to have a basic foundation so you know what you're doing. There are 7 basic tones and 12 tones in total.
Just like your language and writing, a complex communication system was created from 26 letters.

If you want to build a house, it's a good idea to ask someone who knows how
and has learned it; otherwise, your house will collapse in the next storm.

It's best to concentrate on practicing for 20-30 minutes every day, focusing on chords and changes, especially on things that are difficult for you. After a while, you'll get better and better, and you'll have a lot of fun playing, and you can continue to develop throughout your life.

 

right u can have the best bedtrack ever.....like avicii levels, and alan walker fade (No lyrics required)

but for all other cases, a good melody line and lyric combination must drop from the sky in order for the rest to be useful

 

Cool. I like the Goo Goo dolls. They had some good tunes.

Inspiration and Life experiences may have an influence on the choices we make on our journeys, but I do not believe they have any effect on our ability to make time to learn and develop a skill.

There is no guarantee a song that I write will be a world famous hit.
Although, the same can be said that 'Most of the best musicians in the world will never make it famous".
Connections, timing and shear luck have a lot to do with fame.
What's even worse is now physical appearance and branding will have a large influence on that too...

Instrument performance and Song Composition are 2 entirely different skill sets.
Anyone can learn 3-4 chords and hum or whistle a melody, regardless of it sounding good or bad.
Inspiration and Life experiences may have an influence on the choices you make in your lyrics (Another Skill Set).

Look at most country or Americana music. it's just "3 chords and the truth..." Lol.
So many hit songs... Written by people who barley know how to play an instrument.
Guitarists that never learned how to play basic bar chords and need to use a capo to play a song.

Having a hit song, does not make you a good technical performing musician.
It means you composed a song that became popular for the generation it was released.
Having a string of hits songs may have people consider you as an established songwriter like Sia, Diane Warren or Rod Temperton.
Lady Gaga & Elton John could both be considered as technical performing musicians and established composers.

My comment regarding "You have to work for it", was geared toward forward progress with your skill.

To become good at a technical skill, it will require practice, making lots of mistakes, being able to identify these mistakes and how overcome them. This can be said with any other skill like cooking, computer programming, songwriting, body building, guitar, chess, or basket weaving. It's all the same. We will need to invest some time to work on the skill.

When we learn a new skill, everyone starts at bottom.
Blind luck from popularity is not a skill that can be developed.
or help me with my issue playing in the key of Gb.. LOL

I hope this helped to clarify my point of view
Great talking to you!
Cheers.

 

If you work long enough and put your heart and soul into it, you'll eventually get a melody or a hit.
Many bands have a hit to pay their loans. So nothing comes from nothing.

 

I am pointing out two techniques that if someone believes in these two, they don't need to learn anything. These two techniques were invented in the 20th century and made the works of composers much easier. The first technique had existed for centuries, but it hadn't been given a specific name. Approximately over 95% of popular music in the 20th and 21st centuries uses these two techniques. From jazz to rock, pop, country, electronica, and almost all genres of popular music. But what are those two techniques?
1- Pandiatonicism
2- Chord-scale system
These two techniques guarantee that whatever you do is permissible, as long as you stay within the scope of them. Almost everyone uses them, and these two are prevalent in all musical cultures of the world, from west to east, from north to south of the globe.

 

Isn't "the best" dependant on things like a learner's skill level, pace ability of learning, preferred audio-visual presentation (any graphics/animation used) etc?

Also the skill & knowledge level if the instructor?

 

The best tutorial would be when a super-professional composer or songwriter creates an entire world-class piece or song on the piano in front of your eyes and then teaches you how to play it. This could be the most interesting tutorial. This hasn't been done yet.

 

That's why I'm also in favor of textbooks written by professionals.
If they already know something, they simply flip to what they don't know and learn it from there.

Since some parts of the current generation apparently no longer want or can read, it's better to find a piano teacher. Music college students often earn extra money this way. The advantage is that you have someone you can ask questions who also sits right next to you.

If you plan to become famous, invest in a piano teacher or good textbooks.

Piano Book for Adult Beginners: Teach Yourself How to Play Famous Piano Songs, Read Music, Theory & Technique (Book & Streaming Video Lessons) Taschenbuch – 23. Juli 2017
https://www.amazon.de/Piano-Book-Ad...rds=learn+to+play+piano&qid=1745047937&sr=8-4
The Complete Piano Technique Book: The Complete Guide to Keyboard & Piano Technique with over 140 Exercises (Learn how to play piano, Band 1)
https://www.amazon.de/Complete-Pian...rds=learn+to+play+piano&qid=1745047937&sr=8-5

 

I cannot think of anyone I know in any field who is successful, that did not become that way from their own persistence to be the best they could be in their chosen field. Some people can have what is called a photographic memory and learn some things quickly, while others might take longer. I am confident from my own interactions, as well as my own successes, that the determining factor for becoming good at anything is motivation, determination and never giving up, no matter how many obstacles a person is faced with. This is of course reliant on the goal being realistic and achievable.
We all started somewhere.