ebay is your friend, ther are many RME Products on ebay: https://www.ebay.de/p/1468514366

RME Hammerfall DSP 9632 PCI-Card, 32 Kanal, 24bit/192khz - 60 EUR
https://www.ebay.de/itm/326500817975?_skw=RME+Hammerfall+DSP+Multiface+&+PCI+Card&itmmeta=01JRWESD7Q3NM26DXQN65K8K6H&hash=item4c04f71c37:g:~cAAAOSwYP9n4YBv

Homepage RME: https://rme-audio.de/hdsp-9632.html
A setting of 64 samples at 44.1 kHz causes a latency of 1.5 ms,

RME HDSP 9632 - 192kHz PCI Soundcard [PC/Mac] www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rme-hdsp-9632

RME HDSP 9632 Sound Card Review

 

Last edited: Apr 15, 2025 at 11:50 AM

The focusrite mixer software let you route ins/outs AND the loopback
I use FL Studio and Magix SoundForge as partners since early 2000s and with Scarlett I had no problems using the loopback the way I want, like to NOT record the loopback, just my voice, or to record the loopback and not my voice. I often switch what I wanna heard on headphones with custom mix

I have the 4i4, 18i8 and 18i20, all 3rd gen. updated drivers. Latency is a fu**ing problem to me.
I am having a bad time recording vocals and hardware synths, with low latency I am experiencing pops and cracks on my recordings, BUT i think its my OS (win10) that I overload with plugins and libraries.
I am using this system for years now, so I bought a new ssd and made a fresh install of ghostspectre, win 10, that it is working really great, but not using it yet, didnt finish the tweaks

 

For the same price, the Motu 828ES has AVB and following connectivity, drivers on Mac are perfect. Logic's 2 External gear plugins, External Instrument and I/O plugin both have accurate External Hardware Latency Compensation. I/O calculates this via Round Trip Ping measurement, and External Instrument works perfectly with anything connected via Midi. Mic'd sources can be a little more dicey of course, but that is why Nudge should be a tool most people are familiar with using (but usually aren't).

Fanboys will love this. " But, but, but, the Windows Driver! My screen shows 1 ms latency and that one shows 2!".


Analog I/O

• 2 x Mic/Line/Hi-Z Inputs (front panel, combo XLR/TRS)
  
  
• 8 x Line Inputs (rear panel, TRS)
  
  
• 8 x Line Outputs (rear panel, TRS, balanced)
  
  
• 2 x Main Outputs (rear panel, TRS, balanced)
  
  
• 1 x Stereo Headphone Output (front panel, with independent mix)
  

Digital I/O

• 2 x ADAT Optical I/O (can carry 8 channels each at 44.1/48kHz, or 4 at 88.2/96kHz)
  
  • Total: 16 channels in/out via ADAT at standard sample rates
    
• 1 x Stereo RCA S/PDIF In/Out
  
  
• 1 x Word Clock In/Out (BNC connectors)
  

Computer Connectivity

• 1 x USB 2.0 port (USB class compliant, works with Mac, Windows, iOS)
  
  
• 1 x Thunderbolt port (for ultra-low latency on Mac)
  

Network & MIDI

• 1 x AVB/TSN Ethernet port
  
  • For audio networking and expansion
    
    
  • Connect multiple AVB devices over standard Ethernet
    
• 1 x MIDI In / 1 x MIDI Out (standard 5-pin DIN)
  

Total I/O Channel Count:

• 28 Inputs / 32 Outputs (with all I/O formats combined)
  

 

Do you think motu m2 and m4 are better hardware than scarlett in the same price range ?

 

And here's the kicker. An RME (any one you pick!) is not ever going to fix his problem and here is why. He is working entirely in the box. You actually need to read the first post where he mentions Rewire.

He is creating his own Latency problem by running 1 DAW application into ANOTHER DAW. The signal never leaves the computer!

So please explain how latency, which is a measure of the time from audio or data being input from an external source into the interface and then to the DAW application; is going to be fixed by an audio interface...

On Mac, the M2 and M4 use no additional software outside of what is already in the operating system. Most of my complaints about the Scarlett 18i20 were caused by Focusrite Control software. They had just switched from Mix Control to that, and it was terrible.

This entire thread should relate to software. The guy will go blow 1000$ on an RME (or MOTU), and none of this money and effort will ever fix his problem.

 

Last edited: Apr 15, 2025 at 6:14 PM

There are no USB 4 devices now they might be coming in the future. Right now the only options are Thunderbolt 3 or 4.
Just changing your port will not increase your speed if your device will not support the faster speed.

 

Nothing about port speed or throughput is going to change what are 100% issues of data transfer internal to the computer. This is why he even mentions Focusrite trying to write a "custom kext" file for Mac. Which is of course, a kernel extension. When an end user goes to install their "custom kext", he will log in as systemwide root and will end up having to "save and pave" his MacOS when Focusrite cannot fix it for him.

This is how much you should trust a vendor telling you they are going to create a "custom kernel extension with 0 latency" (short answer is they will not be able to). Yup AI. Because I am not going to spend the time typing stuff in a thread when most users cannot even read the first post.


Apple began significantly restricting the installation of custom kernel extensions (kexts) starting with macOS Catalina (10.15), released in October 2019. Here's a breakdown of what happened and when:

macOS Catalina (10.15) – 2019

• User-Approved Kernel Extension Loading: Catalina requires users to manually approve third-party kexts in System Preferences > Security & Privacy, even if installed by a signed developer.
  
  
• Read-Only System Volume: The system volume was made read-only, making it harder for kexts to be installed improperly.

⚠️ macOS Big Sur (11) – 2020

• Major shift: Apple deprecated kexts in favor of System Extensions and DriverKit.
  
  
• On Macs with Apple Silicon (M1 and later), loading third-party kexts requires reducing system security using Recovery Mode and Startup Security Utility.
  
  
• Users need to:
  1. Boot into Recovery Mode.
     
     
  2. Lower security settings (allowing reduced security and kext loading).
     
     
  3. Reboot and approve the kext manually.
• This was the beginning of the end for kexts as a mainstream solution.

macOS Ventura (13) and beyond

• Apple has further discouraged and limited kext use.
  
  
• For many use cases, kexts may no longer work at all, or be explicitly blocked.
  
  
• Only system extensions and DriverKit-based drivers are fully supported.

TL;DR:

• You could still install kexts in Catalina (10.15), but with user approval.
  
  
• Apple made it much harder starting with Big Sur (11)—especially on Apple Silicon.
  
  
• By Ventura (13) and later, kexts are nearly obsolete and replaced by newer frameworks.

 

Again, If I understand OP, he just want to play audio (with eg DAW1, browser, audio player, standalone instrument etc), jam with all that shit and record it into DAW2..

ofc those are all OUTs and I still think using loopback is the best way to go to copy them to INs

To clarify my own post - yep, both Audient (iD14) and RME (the ones I’ve used) can do loopback, but iD14 (me think same with M2, M4, Scarlett, etc.) is all software, totally ITB. OTOH RME (pretty sure 828es too?) does it on hardware (DSP/mixer/whatever). And that can be a big difference.

but pls correct me if I'm wrong

 

if you do not want to introduce additional latency (and another round of digital to analog conversion and analog to digital conversion again) the audio will ideally never leave the computer. It will use Apple coreaudiod and loopback. Wether that is Rogue Amoeba's additional virtual loopback interface or some other third-party. He is using "blackhole" which is essentially a virtual audio cable from one DAW to the other.

You can spend all the money you want on interfaces, but Mac DAWs use Apple's Core Audio. Not some third party driver. The outcome of this has nothing to do with the interface and could be done with no interface at all.

The real answer is to learn one DAW fully, inside and out, and use it. 0 additional latency. If you want to mix in another, Protools, Cubase, Logic, whatever. Bounce stems and reload them. Rewire is dead for a reason.

This is the kind of thread you start when you do not know how to use Logic on the Mac you have had for 1 month. You can still put the Focusrite into the dumpster.

 

Last edited: Apr 16, 2025 at 12:46 AM

The only thing I don't understand is how 5ms of latency is too much. I don't know why people in this site seem to care that strongly about latency that is imperceptible.

As noted above, once the audio is inside the box, the latency is dictated by CPU cycles. When you move the audio between applications, you create more cycles. You can reduce the cycles into the first application with a different interface, but you're looking at 1ms in the best possible scenario, and that number is not even guaranteed anyway.

Here's a test: get an Yamaha AG or MG series (for their wealth of input/output types), route your first DAW through your focusrite, then route the cables out from the focusrite into the line inputs on the Yamaha and use that as your second DAW output (including headphones).

I don't think that would make it any better, though, but that's a routing that's possible on Windows, so it might work on Mac too. The bad side is that you spent a hundred plus on a mixer for no perceptible performance increase, the good side is that you now own a very decent mixer with DSP.

 

Disconnect the interface completely. The problem is not in the interface. It's in the chair.

But you are correct, 5ms is nothing. Especially when latency compensated correctly by the DAW.

 

2.79 - 3.7milliseconds with USB-c is not exactly slow, which I'm already using. But thanks for the extra info

 

Clone is right, that the latency is inside the Box.
And I try to sort out if another Soundcard helps me with that internal latency.

Why do I do this?
First Question is: why do I need to learn a old Daw which doesn't support MPE?
Ableton is a workhouse for inputs and outputs and his routing functions.
I don't buy external synthesis Hardware. So I experiment with this functions.
The Alchemy synth from Logic. Or the Grid from Bitwig are so powerful. Instead of buying endless VSTs the possibilities are already inside the DAWs.
And the Sound which comes out of Alchemy or Bitwig Synths are incredibly good to my ears.

So I want to use them as some kind of Instruments

 

I can recommend this one, it also has a built-in headphone amplifier:

Audient iD14 MKII - 217 € --> https://audient.com/products/audio-interfaces/id14/overview/

• Connection: USB-C
• 24-bit / 44.1–96 kHz
• ADC dynamic range: 121 dB
• DAC dynamic range: 126 dB
• 2x Audient Class A console microphone preamps
• 2 combined mic/line inputs: XLR/TRS combo jack
• Mic gain 58 dB, <0.002% THD+N
• 48 volt phantom power
• Discrete JFET instrument input on the front panel
• D.I. Gain: -5 to 45 dB (including +10 dB software boost)
• Combined ADAT and S/PDIF input (TOSLINK)
• 4 line outputs: 6.3 mm jack
• Speaker mute button
• Monitor mix and monitor panning function
• Powerful headphone amplifier with independent DAC
• Headphone outputs: 1 x 6.3 mm jack, 1 x 3.5 mm jack
• iD Control knob with scroll control for DAW integration
• All-metal desktop housing
• Dimensions: 173 x 120 x 62 mm
• Weight: 1.25 kg
• Including USB Type-C cable (1 m) and Audient ARC download software package

Audient iD4 MKII and iD14 MKII - Audio Interface Review

 

Last edited: Apr 16, 2025 at 9:54 AM

Alchemy is one of my favorite romplers of all time. I Really love this vst. I feel so sad that logic bought camelaudio on 2015, but i left Logic in 2009 and i will never, ever, ever come back to Mac again (the problem is me, i dont judge apple users... sorry, its a lie, I judge )

 

I think a reason why rewire is dead is because none of these software developers want to have a feature that is for "when you connect it to a real DAW". They want to say theirs can do everything, and they nearly can.

If my computer could bounce an mp3 or even wave file of a project from Logic or FL in 2 minutues, I would just work in 2 programs and pick somewhere to assemble stuff. If I wanted to work in one in the other, I would just load whatever I have in the first DAW into the second one.

Figure out a workflow.

 

thank you for the input. I bought one, arrives on saturday
I think I'm gonna record some vocals to test it next week

 

My friend also had a Audient.
The hardware inside for recording external mic or instrument is Pretty good for this

 

Thank you my friend. I will find my workflow

Here in Germany we say: Der Weg ist das Ziel.
So it's part of my hobby to find and create alternative ways. It's also my Hobby because I'm in IT and always try to brake the limitations

 

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Last edited: Apr 16, 2025 at 2:13 PM