C major and G mixolydian for example have the same notes, just starting on a different note

So why is G mixolydian so much less discussed in general?

I mean why Major and Minor scales only usually referenced 99% of the time ?


thanks

 

Overall, major and minor scales are simply the most commonly used and best understood scales in Western music.

Cultural preferences: Many styles of music, especially in Western music, tend to use major and minor scales.
This has led to these scales gaining more attention in popular culture and the mainstream.

 

Because a lot of things in music are just due to convention, tradition, and habit. Things have becomed framed around the major/minor dichotomy, but you're right that modes don't get as much love as they should, and the same thing with other "exotic" scales.

A lot of people teach music theory through the lens of "relative to C-major" and the assumption that it is the starting point and everything else is just a modification. Honestly, I think it's bad form, but maybe it's because I view things rationally and I think a lot of tradition is simply cruft.

 

Tonal harmony is all based on major/minor, which is the most common way of writing and/or analysing chords and progressions in the western world.

Look into modal music if you fancy something different, obviously not something of European heritage, but also folk music often uses mixolydian and dorian. Modal jazz is an obvious one and so on.

 

A lot of us- definitely myself included- tend to use various modes more or less intuitively without really thinking about what mode we're playing in specifically. I studied all that stuff once but I'd have to do a lot of revision to remember what they all actually are

 

Buddy, modal music, which has its roots in Greek modes and various exotic scales originating from different cultures (and therefore creates unique and different atmospheres), ended up losing ground in Western music over the centuries due to cultural and structural transformations. With the emergence of the tonal system at the end of the Renaissance and the beginning of the Baroque period, harmonic progressions based on tonic and dominant (circle of fifths, etc.) brought a more direct organization to resolve musical tensions, allowing narrative interpretations based on contrasts of drama and emotion in operas, symphonies, and other genres that gradually gained popularity. Another point was the standardization that came with the rise of the tempered system, which favored major and minor keys to the detriment of other modal scales with 'unusual' chords and resolutions. However, modal music did not disappear; it was redistributed to more peripheral areas of general appreciation categories (folk musical traditions, as well as genres like jazz, heavy metal, thrash metal, etc.).

 

I don't know what exactly you're asking to be honest and I don't know where to start either.

G Major is the most common choice for writing music, beating out C Major in the data sets I've seen (Hooktheory, Method Matters).

Mixolydian is a different vibe because the relationship, type and function of the notes and chords is not the same as in Major. It sounds more "serious" by default in western cultural contexts (-> I-V vs I-v for example, ...), making it slightly less appealing for writing straight forward, happy music.

If this doesn't make sense ("but they're the same notes"), then learning the relationships between notes (major, minor, perfect, ...) and functional harmony is a great starting point.

Mixolydian had its moment in time with early rock.

 

I love E mixolydian, gives me a nostalgic vibe
but 90% of my tracks are in Dm, Gm ou C, because they birth intuitively without really thinking, like said @Smeghead

 

Led Zeppelin - Whole Lotta Love (Example not G Mixolydian)

E Mixolydian, not G Mixolydian. Three major chords: E (I), A (IV), and D (VII).
The main riff of the song follows the pattern E-D-E or I-VII-I in the Mixolydian mode.

 

All functional chords (T, S and D) in the major scale are major, and they are minor in the minor scale. This creates tonal definiteness. In other modes their are mixed. The dominant chord in G Mixolydian is minor, T and S are major.

 

If you're talking about discussion, not music performance, why would you think mixolydian is 'less discussed'? I guess it comes down to where the discussion is taking place. Medieval and Renaissance studies rarely mention major and minor (first mention we know of was in 1547), same for European folk music and liturgical music studies.
But if you're talking about modern popular music or the classical/romantic periods, major and minor are definitely the main words you hear. It's like 4/4. Throughout history, everything has pretty much always been based on a hierarchy or sorts. At one point, it all came together around 12-tone temperament and major/minor, and that's how we got to where we are today. It wasn't like that 500 years ago, but now it is.

BTW, modern and contemporary modal music have nothing to do with Greek modes—that's one of the funniest music theory myths ever.

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2025 at 5:01 PM

Because making your "key center" G mixolydian instead of C Ionian (Major) doesn't change the fact that your triads of those scale tones are still mostly* major or minor.

It's all about tonal center. The reason we say you would be "in the key of C major" instead of G mixolydian (even though the notes are the same) is because of what is already explained when you first learn about modes (most of the time, we 1st learn the modes of the major scale and then go from there). That is, just because they share the same notes, the starting place has a great deal of influence on the sound and feel. G mixolydian is called G mixolydian and not* C Ionian explicitly because it takes that group of notes and starts on the G instead of C (aka 'modes') which now changes pretty much everything (for example what your V is now, the plagal cadence changed, neopolitan changed, etc etc etc.)

Lastly, to make your tonal center truly* modal, it takes a little bit more "effort" and is generally more of an "outside" sound (making huge generalizations here as this really should be a long discussion/exploration to do it justice). So with that being said, lightest things usually float to the top and more "accessible" (again gross generalizations here) which is probably why it isn't "discussed" as much.

This is all mainly from the frame of reference of the "pop" kinda circle. This is literally year 1 jazz or classical stuff regardless.

 

Last edited: Mar 10, 2025 at 5:38 PM

Coming from a jazz background: because our framework for understanding harmony and note relationships is tonal (i.e. either minor or major). We interpret intervals in terms of minor and major leaps. So, we will always talk about modes in terms of tone e.g. such interval in such mode is a major third or minor seventh apart, as opposed to what would happen in the major or minor tones. You could argue that everything boils down to semantics or even cultural preferences, but that explanation glosses over many important details. For example, modal chords are not functional, therefore there is no tension or resolution, therefore you can't expect to have e.g. a dominant-tonic relationship, which is a mistake many people make when trying to compose modal music or improvise over it. If you try to construe a dominant-tonic relationship in G mixolydian, you will effectively enter C major territory. Bear in mind, the admitted notes are the same, but the tonal center is different, and so are the chord relations. Hence modes don't have chord progressions, only chord changes. In other words, the harmony doesn't 'move', but 'floats'. Modal chords never 'want to go' anywhere. This is of course 'in general', as you sometimes have modal passages that resemble functional harmony (Debussy and other French composers pulled that off), not to mention modal interchange strutctures or multiple tonal centers that can be heard in different ways and make matters more complicated.

IMHO the state of the art in music theory is really messy right now. I feel there is a huge open avenue for groundbreaking theory that completely resets our harmonic understanding... a bit like the Maxwell/Newton conflicts that were harmonized by Einstein.

 

I think obviously that breakthrough will be related to some reformatting of the 12 tone or something along those lines. Modern composition (and by extension, more modern forms of notation) are all, and have been for some time, pushing the boundaries of what we even tune to in general. So you may very well have theories of harmony that only apply to say, a quarter tone here, or "X" amount of cents here, etc etc

 

Question: do you understand that E mixolydian is the same as saying A major or F# minor. (they all have same notes)

If so, why do you call it E mixolydian?

 

I never discuss music theory in public, I feel it a private and deeply personal matter.

 

your thread starts mixing apples and almonds my friend

"C major" is a key, the basic implant of a composition, "G mixolydian is A MODE", which is (lets say)just A FRACTION of a key

Once you are talking about "C major" your talking about G mixolydian, F lydian, D dorian and all the 7 MODES that have their role in a whole key structure.

Maybe you meant "C ionian versus G mixolydian"? Which one is the strongest? lol it's still a question that make no sense, because both modes has their "momentum" inside a composition*

*well, let's say that in C major key the "paradox" is that G mixolydian is even stronger than C ionian lol thats why we also call it "the dominant of the key" (when thinking not in modal...but thats another...long story...lol)

enjoy making music and dont mess too much with theory, as Lois Lane wrote it's a great argument but only in private

 

This is a common misunderstanding. For tonalities to be identical, not only must they have the same notes, but also in the same order. This is because the degrees matter; if you center your tonality around C, in your original example, you will be working on C major, whereas if you center it in G, you'll be in G mixolydian. How come? Because you will understand that the 'most relevant chord' (i.e. the tonal center) is G, not C. How do you establish a tonal center? In tonal music, that is usually done by the dominant–tonic progression. In modal music, it's generally by repetition, like pedal points, starting the changes with that chord etc. There are some cadences (look up what that means, if you can) that have been used a lot in modal pop music and have become more evidential of such and such mode. To be clear: the note order is important because you build your chords based on it, and different intervals will result in different types of chords in each degree, which in turn will relate differently to one another (even if the notes are all the same as another mode or key). But that also matters when it comes to scales: you can use G mixolydian to solo over a C major chord, but yes, the notes are the same, so for it to sound like G mixolydian you will have to think of G as 'home' during your solo and generally gravitate towards that specific note.

 

The major and minor scales have been the foundation of Western music for centuries, particularly since the Baroque period (around 1600–1750). Composers like Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven built much of their music around these scales, solidifying their importance in music theory and education. The major and minor scales form the basis of functional harmony, which relies on the relationship between chords (tonic, dominant, subdominant, etc.) to create tension and resolution. This system is deeply ingrained in Western music.
In contrast, modes like G mixolydian are not tied to the same harmonic expectations. While G mixolydian has a flattened 7th (F instead of F# in G major), it doesn't have the same strong pull toward a tonic chord as the major scale does. This makes it less central to traditional harmonic progressions. Music theory education traditionally focuses on major and minor scales because they are the most common and foundational. Modes like mixolydian are often introduced as variations or "flavors" rather than primary scales.
So even though G mixolydian and C major share the same notes, the tonal center (G in mixolydian vs. C in major) and the harmonic emphasis make them feel completely different. In G mixolydian, the flattened 7th (F) creates a more "bluesy" or "rock" sound, which is less common in traditional Western music.

 

Yes, they have the same notes, but the tonal is different. Example: if you write a simple EDM song and you use E mixolydian then E is going to be your "dominant" note, bass going to be in E, melody usually going to start on E note and so on, and that creates a different "feel" other than A major.