No idea what you've been smoking. My comment was about the fact that Mac scene releases are few compared to those for Windows, so if you want plugins, the likelyhood that you'll have to spend money on them is higher than on Windows.

 

Thanks for taking the time.
Well I could write all day long about this.
I'm probably ignorant compared with an expert but I feel that I have a lot of experience compared with the average user.
Building and configuring my own PC's since 2007.
I've tried many, MANY images. Right now I'm using an Ultra Lite Windows 11.
I debloated images myself with MSDK Development Kit tool and also using the Phoenix FBConan images (right now).

 

If you want specific plugins which are iLok'd, we can a) run them in Windows or b) buy them. Most of the plugins I end up buying myself you don't have on Windows either. We get almost everything else worth using. Windows also gets a lot of low-end cheap stuff that no-one bothers with on the Mac side. A big percentage of the Windows releases that never happen for Mac are guitar related stuff. It's nowhere as different as Windows users generally assume. Most Windows users who so adamantly tell people not to try a Mac have never used one. They may claim to know Mac, but we can dispense with that attempt at fiction real quickly. 10 questions or less. Meanwhile, everyone who knows anything about computers will know Windows; or at least think they do. More fiction.

 

I enjoy the screen quality on my M1 Macs. The low energy consumption is more of a feelgood factor. Don't care much about MacOS. The main reason I've been using Macs for the past couple of years is being able to work in absolute silence. I just couldn't get it any other way.

Even so, I have Asahi Linux dual boot on both machines and do whatever I can in Linux, including part of music production work. The moment a suitable Windows ARM machine is available, I'm back to Linux only.

 

Not a win11 fan here especially for production purposes. Win10 21H2 - 22H2 would be my choices - they are much more backward compatible with a greater selection of software than win11. Personally, I can't recommend a switch to apple due to the irrevocable corporate b.s. they impose on the end user. The PC has a similar issue going with mickeysoft, but the difference there for the end user is that one can reverse engineer the windows os to comply with a user's wants & needs. With the apple os you are stuck with it...

I don't use Ableton so I can't speak to it, but I have read of many folks here who do use it and use k'ed versions of it and do not experience issues. Or if they are having an issue it's not due to the thing being a k'ed version...

If you're having issues with latency there are specific things that cause this on both platforms. If you're running 16GB of ram on a audio box and you're expecting stellar performance (this might have been true 15 years ago but not now) you're barking up the wrong tree. Unless all you're doing is editing wave forms or something simple like that.

Also I have no idea what you're expecting from whatever audio hardware you're using - I will say that there are good number of audio interfaces out there that while maybe being fair/midland on the hardware side, completely suck on the driver end. When selecting an interface you need to be mindful of good hardware, but the drivers need to be rock solid was well in order to make it all work properly. Personally, I switched to RME gear a number of years ago and have never looked back. Always rock solid performance from the Hammerfall 9652/ADI-8 (which I still use btw) to my newer Fireface UFX. The HW is solidly built and the drivers are just as solid as the HW.

These days you really don't need to "debloat" images yourself. GhostSpectre are the only ones I even touch anymore and they come "debloated". There is always considerable post install reverse engineering that must be done on any build, but on a GS Super-Lite image your post-installation job is lessened by a large degree.

With regard to Nvidia drivers and latency, if you're not doing video production on the same machine you really don't need an Nvidia GPU. You can get by with chipset video if you're thinking the Nvidia GPU driver is causing latency havoc - personally I have never had issue with them and I have been using them for years...

I really don't like either platform - PC or apple. But for reasons I already stated the PC platform, IMO, is better from a user operability standpoint and can be made to be respectful of an end users privacy. This cannot be said of the apple os. As far as sound quality differences go there are none. The only thing that is left is which GUI you're more comfortable staring at over a stretch of time. The platform wars were over a long time ago, and neither of them won.

 

Last edited: Feb 21, 2025

The only thing I feel qualified to chime in here is the following, in no particular order:

• I part time consult on and deploy million dollar A/V PC/Windows based systems for large pro organizations - months of headaches
• I use only Macs for my own A/V professional facility and needs - zero headaches, literally download software, plug and play

As to how that translates for all y'all Hackintoshers and Warez junkies, your priorities may vary from mine.

That said, no one can tell what your platform is (or plugins are) when they listen to your music, so there's that too.

 

I'm not smoking anything, and I think I was pretty polite and respectful in my comment to users of all systems. But regarding your latest statement, I think clone said it best with a pretty clear explanation here:

You said:

Which simply isn't true as explained, and plays into the trope I addressed. I'm not addressing 'you', or singling you out in particular, I'm just addressing the same tired apple thing I see typed over and over and over again, and often from people who have not done their homework or understand. When I did my research after some time off and it was time to get a new system, well, I was open to anything, as regardless it was going to be a shift... and I took into consideration what I wanted to do, and spend, and many other factors, and for 'me', apple silicon won the day. I'm not saying it would be a salve for everyone. Never would. It just didn't set me back the way people posit.

As I said, I don't care what people use, nor have an allegiance to any os, and as I generally agree with the essence of what a lot of what @saccamano is saying here in regards to os's, and problem solving, and issues with both 'main' os's etc, and different companies climbing up our jiggy etc and privacy concerns,...

So while I have tended to use Macs for audio production, it's more because I have been using them since before a lot of this was possible on Windows machines, and so over decades I have been more entrenched in that ecosystem, but I have successfully used both, or 'other', to accomplish my ends. All good.

(also consideration for me to some degree is that I also have to interact with many others in the same ecosystem, as it is dominant installed os in my sample set of work. Not here perhaps, and I get that, all good, and tread lightly to put any reason, or suggest superiority on any of that as OT... I want people to use what they are comfortable with and enjoy the process. If it's a mbp, a pc tower, or a raspberry pi tracker....or their phone/tablet for all I care. )

Sure, over that time I have spent a fair amount of money on plugins and hardware, as anyone would have to in what I do. But in regards to ultimately spending more on hardware that runs a particular os for what I need it to do, that hasn't proven to be the case in my situation, or most I know, whether hobbyist or professional, or retired.

e.g. : I wanted Soundtoys, appreciate the devs etc, so well over a decade ago I bought it on sale for $100 and haven't had to spend a dime with them since (and there were osx releases of that from teams back at that time I had running). Same with Eventide. Same with Logic, and etc etc. Amortized over the decades (which shouldn't matter in the purview of this conversation I understand), I'm perfectly ok with that, and prefer to support the devs that I like and use and feel give an s. On the other side of that coin, NI used to cool imho, not so much anymore, and I could care less about lining the pockets of the Francisco tech chachi's....

As for anything else I'm on the fence about, or don't like the dev (as mentioned), or don't like their practices, .... well, I've been absolutely fine. I'm not loaded with money, and I got an MBP, and while I don't need to rely on k's at this point as someone just getting into this who feels desperate to have it all, fomo, or GAS, or has issues with picking a lane, ....but I have absolutely sampled my fair share of them without much impediment thanks to friends and sister site and elsewhere.

And if find myself breathlessly feeling like I can't possibly create music or finish a track without a crack of Bloom or Soothe available (I don't), I would buy them. Or I would face the sad fact that I am just bad at what I do. Or I would use the 10 other options that circle the same kinda thing as everything else has...

But the sister site has done a more than adequate job of providing me with extended trials to inform my purchasing decisions, I spend very little time having to do anything but get down to work when I want, and I haven't spent more than I would with another system of similar prowess than my current, and I tend to use my systems, and keep them, as I can certainly find musical use/application for them, for well over a decade or more.

So now I've got a system that purrs, does a lot of heavy lifting, (without noise or excessive heat), is portable, (as brought around the world), and honestly did not cost that much, (leaving me able to make other purchases should I need with all os agnostic reason), has been solid and consistent as a rock since I set it up and does more than I expected honestly.

I guess I just don't spend too much time complaining or worrying about what I don't have, that others 'may', as I don't really experience that, and have plenty of other options and historically have done far more with far less.



edit: misspelled user name, apologies.

 

Last edited: Feb 21, 2025