Hello fam,
this post is not intended for opening the usual and endless discussion about Mac VS PC.

I just want advise from users with experience with both, even when I already have a Macbook Air M1 (for personal productivity) and I use Windows in my studio PC since the beginning of time, but I don't have experience with a Hackintosh or a genuine Mac for music production as a desktop computer.

Said that, I want to know 2 things.

1) Do you feel you get enough amount of plugins in Audioz for Mac? are the cracked versions for Mac working as good as the ones for PC?

2) Do you feel limited in any way using a non genuine version of plugins, OS and DAW for Mac?

any other comment is welcome.

Thank you in advance.

P.S.: I have a beast PC and even when I've already got to a point of a good configuration, I always experienced some degree of issues with Windows and Ableton, plugins, latency, drivers, etc though.
I would like more stability and to be able to FORGET about the software/hardware and focusing on WORKING.

- Intel i9 12900K
- Mother Asus ROG Strix Z690
- RAM DDR5 5200Mhz 16GB (2x8)
- SSD Samsung PRO 980 256GB
- Asus Nvidia Geforce TUF Gaming 1660Ti 2GB

 

You basically get HALF scene releases on Mac.
You may get "securities" blocking scene installs on LAST OSX version (s).

I will tell you MY own experience : i build an hackintosh on purpose to switch on Mac ... and i was back to Windows soon after
Each one his own experience.

My hackintosh is now running win 10 only, and the dual boot OSX drive is now used as fast sample loading.
Forever

Just try and see if you can.
I love OSX ... but not for audio scene releases
Just my point of view.

 

The switch to Mac is only worth it if you're financially off well enough to not have to rely on Warez anymore.

 

thanks for chiming in.
Valuable experience. I have a colleague that is very happy with his Hackintosh but I want to be sure before swapping, because the change will also include changing the cellphone.

Something that I have clear is that I prefer to use the same ecosystem whatever thing I decide to use.

 

actually it is because I'm tired of Windows issues of latency, Nvidia drivers, Ableton crashes...
even when I buy the best PC as you can get in that moment I experience problems and I have a very customized Windows, LSTB, debloated, working better than the average user, but still not enough to be focused only in working as I see that happen with Mac users.

Maybe as you say (and I agree) that scenario will be more expensive since I will have to buy more original plugins, but maybe is the cost to have a more stable system.

 

Hackintosh in 2025 sounds like taking aim at your own foot.

 

I voted "PC" because that includes Linux, you know. All less than 10% of the PC users.

When it comes to OSes I will always tell you that MacOS is a lovely system (I use it here and there), but its owners suck, same as with Windows. Due to sucky owners forward and backward compatibility with programs and plugins sucks, and that sucks a lot.

Lack of backward and forward compatibility can drive you mad as every time you update MacOS because some new plugins work only with the newer MacOS, many older plugins will stop working and you have to update them as well. You could say "oh that's alright, I'm not gonna update MacOS" and that means you are fine with having all the plugins up to this point and not wanting most of the new plugins and updates for plugins? If you're OK with that, you will be a happy MacOS user. And probably more productive when you stop updating and start making music.

But if you plan on updating everything like you can with Windows and Linux, you'll be on a path of maintenance nightmare, especially with cracked software that isn't regularly updated.

Cheers!

 

Last edited: Feb 20, 2025 at 6:26 PM

Are you using cracked Ableton or legit? Nvidia driver DPC latency issues can be solved by getting an AMD card which doesn't have to be an expensive endeavor. Other than that i don't see how you're gonna get better latency out of class compliancy to a degree that would even be noticeable, let alone warrant the complete switch to Mac.

 

Contradicting information. Quadruple your current RAM.

 

Yes, hackintosh is dead in the water now.
I was speaking about years ago

OP : post here your troubles with your PC, and we may help you solving them.
It is NOT "normal" to get Ableton crash and such troubles.
To me, it is NOT a reason to switch ... until you want to go "all legit" on OSX (not your way, it seems).

If it is Ableton 12 ... it is normal : pure crap (for now)
I switched back to A11

 

I believe maybe you meant "not through a Hub"? This is not entirely correct, and is not an issue. Almost every synth which states this in their manuals can actually be used with a powered hub to my Mac. Even the Virus ti, with its various problems always blamed on something, and especially this one. Most of them even work with my under $20 unpowered 7 to 1 USB A hub. After all, USB midi data is very little data over the wire, in the greater scheme of things.

All my synths work fine if connected via usb to a powered hub and then to the Mac. The only time they will not, and this is all of them; is when downloading and flashing new firmware. Almost every single synth I have will fail flashing firmware via hub; but after that, when reconnected to the hub will work perfectly fine. The "do not use a hub warning" in almost all manuals serves more for the manufacturer's tech support purposes; in the rare instances where it actually does cause an issue during initial installation and flashing firmware updates. They do not want it to turn into a returned unboxed unit RMA because someone has a problematic hub.

 

Get a Mac, If you get a win machine to get warez you will be downloading everything forever and a day. We've all been there.

 

Brother you already got a Mac, try it, only you can answer all these questions, do you feel limited or whatever.

 

Just make sure to get a Mac with an ethernet port. Then you can use anything you want to load in Windows on your PC, but then load it into your Mac DAW via Audiogridder.

The plugins as AU plugin format .component plugins are just as stable as Windows. Maybe not more, but certainly not less. They never just crash for no reason.

The comments about not worth your time and money to build a Hackintosh anymore are correct. If you want an intel based Mac; they can be bought used for very low prices already. Or if you are going to go with something new, you may as well just get an Apple Silicon as it is ARM.

I do not really agree you will need to buy lots of plugins at expensive prices. You can either use the PC as an audiogridder plugin server connected to your Mac DAW, you can use either Crossgridder or Parallels Desktop to run them virtualized. Or you can buy the small number of very specific plugins you might really need because you are used to using them on PC already. 90% of those will be R2R releases of iLok'd plugins. There are plenty of released plugins to have more than you will ever need. Let's face it, most plugins do not do anything you cannot just pick an equal substitute for.

It shouldn't be a problem, but check that the audio interface you intend to use will not cause issues and make you need to buy a new one.
You might also want to look into your options for external drives. You might need or want corresponding file systems.

For the reasons you mention considering a switch, i'd do it in a minute.

 

ok, I don't usually bite on this trivial nonsense of whatever stuff, and I'm os agnostic, as I truly believe anyone and everyone should be happy with what they have or desire and are capable of getting what they want done... I don't care if it's macOS, osX, windows 95/damn vista/10/11, or linux....

but this crap about "financially well off enough" to get a current m chipped Mac is tired bullshit.

Yeah, don't get the 8tb 256GB ram version. But you can get a really good apple authorized/recognized for warranty/AppleCare+ etc machine for a fair price if you know how to look, and I know it varies between different countries etc, which does suck...

they are stable. yeah, you get hit with the apple tax on ssd size and ram on purchase, but hell, I got mine for a great price (apple refurbished) and I've got a whisper quiet machine that runs everything I need and has plenty of ports to deal with my usb needs etc...

Previously I ran their old 5,1's for a long long time, and were great... and still are. but hackintosh isn't as much on the table these days, and with current apple silicon and needs etc... I had to make the move.

Some growing pains? sure... I waited until 3 gens in on that. And I imagine when arm is established fully on Windows, it's gonna probably face the same... or more issues, as larger product/sku set ....and dealing with compatibility issues from 32 bit etc? well, .. I don't know, I don't see it being a kumbaya situation....

I hope I'm wrong on that.

as yeah, I do use windows machines as well, or any cpu. I want things to be affordable and attainable and capable for everyone across the board. and not sipping the kool aid, and my current life situation and work.... well, .. it was an obvious choice for 'me', and I can recognize that it might now be for everyone. But the snide snark on it is tired. we all know.

But the mbp didn't cost that much tbh, have plenty of ram, 1tb internal ssd, fast, runs anything I pretty much throw at it, never hear the fan, portable, no heat, energy efficient as all hell, and all good.

There aren't many laptops that are beating it in what it does in the similar price range on other os's for something I will have for years that I know of. I'm running more tracks, with more cpu demand, at lower latency, then I did with my towers previously...

I'm not saying apple stuff is cheaper.. nor am I saying it has more available stuff from sister site, ... but take a look at the current pricing (at least in the states), at what they are.. and the fact that I have ridden my previous machines for decade +, and either have bought over time on sale the plugins etc I want (as I do like the time extended trials we are offered from sister site, but ultimately, as someone who makes a living off my own IP, I generally pay for what I actually use, and the sister site has enabled me to decide what it is that I actually use etc.. but hey, I'm not casting judgement on anyone, as I know a lot of people are just having fun and have been burned before, and some of those devs are pos's absolutely).... so what have you, or what I have now, and what have you... if I can't get it done on it, that's on me.

All I know is that I used to need a room full of cheesegraters burning more kw/H in 2 hours then my mbp uses in a year it seems, and hd's and all sorts of hardware ranging from synths to outboard etc to do what I do now.... with this little system if one takes the time to figure out how it works in terms of sister site stuff... and for a pretty paltry sum all things considered...

I'm not a rich man, but I'm pretty confident about my roi on apple silicon...

and I have no problem with anyone using anything else lol... I'm just a little tired of the "toss the apple users in with the avocado toast and Tesla driving" tropes, as I've been doing this longer then most, and I've honestly never been more impressed by what these m chipped Macs can do in terms of size and power in 30+ years.

 

Well, you need to up your game a bit mate. 16 gb ram in 2025? 32gb should be considered as minimum. Also a larger ssd will allow for better performance at all times, unless you never exceed 50% your system drive's capacity. You never mentioned a crucial part, your audio interface.
Now i rarely use Live in the studio but i do use it in certain gigs. My worse latency with it is 3 ms roundtrip with a Lenovo Legion 5 (Ryzen 7 5800H/64gb ram) and a Motu Ultralite mk5. My main desktop runs with a pair of old MOTU 2408mk3. My second one with an RME Babyface. My wife's runs with an Audient ID14 mkII. We record on all pcs occasionally and we never get more than 2 ms when recording on either pc.
You are definitely doing something wrong. Biggest pointer is that Intel's efficiency cores don't work with Ableton Live, yet you went for Intel anyway and probably haven't noticed it yet(?).
Saw you joined the forum at 2018. 7 years now you should be past all these, not to mention past considering a Mac too lol. Not that it's not fine. I can argue macOS is better than Windows. It's just the nature of the closed ecosystem hardware that is the opposite of upgradeable, making it more of a niche machine.

 

You think there are 0 latency issues on apple? Guess again...

For one, LTSB-anything is NOT an image I would recommended for any sort of production build. How are you "debloating" these windows builds? With apps? Because most of those "apps" don't even work anymore due to tighter measures taken by mickeysoft to prevent the usage of such stuff. Are you running active internet connections on the production machine? Who is doing the optimization for you? How skilled are they? The best optimized builds for production use are Super-Lite windows install images that have most of the heavy lifting completed upon install. But you need to realize there is much manual tweaking to be done to get a new build ready to go. Also, 90% of issues cropping up post install are usually attributable to lack of resources of the hardware SKU itself. If you're putting together your own hardware SKU's then maybe this is the problem... You might consult with a seasoned builder of production boxen.

With apple you pay out the ass, but for the most part you get a quality hardware build. But then you're stuck with apple os which is problematic if you're a warez hound. Audio hardware is also a HUGE factor on either platform. Get crappy audio hardware and you end up with problems - again this is not platform specific. Lack of hardware resources is another common problem on the PC side. People tend to skimp. You can't skimp. 32GB of ram is entry level now (the more ram the better), and NVme and SSD are what is used for speedy loading of apps and samples etc. HDD's are used for mass storage. I have used Nvidia GPU's in every one of my windows production builds since forever, because I use the same machines for video as well as audio production. And for video Nvidia GPU's are the only thing going. I have not had any significant issues with them being used in a audio production environ despite what some say. I learned very early in my SKU building career that running chipset video hardware, or AMD GPU's are bad news when it comes to still and video productions.

There are a very large number of folks here that are running windows builds very successfully for both audio and video production who are not experiencing any of the issues you describe. I would suggest that the problem is not how much $$ you throw at it. It has more to do with the knowledge needed to put together a winning system from the ground up. Since you are not having much luck doing your own PC builds you might just be one that is better suited for the apple side. Be advised though, neither platform is not without it's own set of issues.

 

Last edited: Feb 20, 2025 at 11:26 PM

I don't advice LTSB too ...
When i needed to update Win to use my last DAW update ... it was not possible, because LTSB are NOT meant to be updated.
I needed to do an "in place" update, and it was a non working nightmare.
So i switched licence to "regular" Windows Pro, limited updates (setting) so i can do it myself.
And will never touch LTSB again

 

Nowadays with Ableton stock plugins and some tools here and there, I see it possible.

I would consider a genuine Mac too, probably a Mac Studio or MacBook Pro.

Sure, I don't need to update each and every time. Once I get everything going I stay there for a long time, at least until a new version of Live with useful new functions is out and well tested...

R2R version of Live 12.1
I don't see what changes in the equation with that info.

RAM is almost never a unstability factor about latency and/or driver issues.
Actually I uploaded a video in the past testing exactly that, using over 60 channels fully loaded with plugins like
Diva, Omnisphere, Kontakt, Massive, Serum, Monark, Trillian, etc with a meter on screen and 16GB DDR4 RAM and never got used over 77%. Ableton Live meter peaking 85% at max.

SPECS: Intel i7-8700 6 cores 3.2 Ghz + 16GB DDR4 RAM + SSD Samsung Pro 970 and with 3.6 GB RAM still available to go.

We are talking about a lot of processing power and channels count with 16GB DDR4 RAM and never was a problem in those tests.

Said that, a week ago I bought 32GB RAM (2x16) Corsair Vengeance upgrading to 6400Mhz with a faster CL32 latency, but that was never an issue as I said. Waiting for it to arrive.

So, if got that efficiency and power with that specs imagine how better I should be now with an i9 with DDR5 and a better SSD.

Hello mate,
RAM and SSD is never an issue if you don't request more that you have.

I never used more than 16GB RAM (last week I already bought 32GB 6400Mhz waiting to arrive) and the SSD 256GB is more than enough for the OS and plugins. For all the rest needs I have more drives.

1) Samsung 980 Pro SSD 256GB for O.S. and software
2) Crucial SSD 700GB for Kontakt Libraries
3) Crucial2 SSD 700GB for Samples
4) Western Digital SSD 256GB for Projects
5) Seagate 1 HDD 4TB Storage
6) Seagate 2 HDD 8TB Storage

I also need many USB's. I have around 15 directly to the PC and 10 more with a USB 3.0 PCIe expansion card.

well, I could go legit on Mac with a Mac Studio, of course I would reduce hugely the amount of plugins that I have, but I could handle it.

Issues are with Nvidia drivers, I've tried everything. Reinstalled Windows many times.
I have a good performance but no better than with an old i7 8700 that I posted above and that's not logical. (I can share the video with anyone) I feel It should be much better.
Over time I learn a lot about tips & tricks on how to configure a music production machine, and still getting things working poorly, that's why the tiredness and the desire to change.

Maybe Ableton 12.1 as you said, I don't know, I certainly believe that could be a reason...

I agree.

That would be totally inefficient, it would take weeks to try instead of working.
Actually, a Macbook Air M1 wouldn't handle my projects of 50/60 channels full of plugins. Also I would have to download everything for Mac, install, just to see if it works.
And lastly my PCIe audio interface also wouldn't work with a laptop. If I change I have to take the decission and jump, can't make a half test.

thanks for that valuable information

I don't believe that upgrading those 2 parts change the system performace if you don't request it.
If you can, read what I posted above in this thread. Many myths in the computer world.
At least for my needs 256 GB of a good SSD and 16GB RAM works good. I'm on my way of upgrading RAM though, but that's not the issue here.

I have 5 drives more for storage.

I use a RME RayDat PCIe audio interface with a AD/DA converter and the total roundtrip is as good as it can get with 5ms total.