You can still say "yes" to digital freedom today

By saying "yes" you are also saying "no" to smartphone surveillance by large corporations such as Google, Apple, Meta & Co.

Hardly anyone takes the time to read the small print - the complete data protection policy - of digital providers. You scroll down, tick the box and accept what you have not read. Unfortunately, there is no option to select "Do not accept" - there seems to be no alternative to using a smartphone. The only choice that remains is: which is the lesser evil - Apple or Google?

We have set ourselves the goal of offering you an alternative – as simply as possible! In our shop you can get freedom mobile phones with alternative, open source operating systems – delivered ready to your home.

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Please see here.

(https://www.pcgeeksusa.com/the-risks-of-using-an-outdated-or-unsupported-operating-system/)
(https://www.itconvergence.com/blog/risks-of-using-outdated-operating-system/)

 

I appreciate so many opinions.
I'll reply little by little.

Hi, my friend.

I understand your opinion. There's no need to cut off anything that's old, long-lasting, and old ones have many good aspects. In particular, now the value of old instruments, represented by analog synthesizers, is being re-recognised.
If it lasts a long time, I think it's okay to use it until it completely breaks.

However, this changes when we are using things that are currently undergoing advances in technology.
There are software and plugins that can't keep up with the times and stop working. And when it comes to PCs, since you have an internet connection, cyber attacks are an element that you should always be wary of.
Of course, if it's a completely offline, standalone machine, there's no need to worry about anything.
However, if you are connected to the internet using an old OS PC, it is a dangerous act.

 

i just built a new computer.. altho old is very good new is also good.

 

That's why you should think about the worst case scenario, i.e. infection with viruses, Trojans and ransomware etc. The best thing you can do is to make a complete backup of your C:/ hard drive, so that if your PC freezes, for example, you can turn it off, put the emergency rescue CD in the drive and restore your entire system.

You should also always back up important data and your music projects externally.

Please give me some examples of which plugins stop working, I don't know of any!

I have installed an older 32-bit DAW on a 64-bit system in Windows 11 and can use it to play all the old 32-bit plugins.
The most annoying thing of all are updates and incorrectly programmed software.

 

That's not what we're talking about.
It doesn't matter whether the plugins or software are new or old. My opinion is that there are few benefits to using an older PC.

 

One is hardware and the other is software.

- Software has the advantage that it doesn't break because it's digital.
- Hardware has the disadvantage that it will eventually break, depending on use, and you have to replace it.

New devices are usually more energy efficient and at the cutting edge of technological development. CPU, RAM and SSD are faster than the last generation.

 

Inversely that would mean there are many benefits to using a new PC, can you expound upon exactly what these benefits are?

 

we are talking incremental changes, not exponential changes,

one must always do cost benefit analysis, including user learning curve, reloading software, reconfiguring work space and work flow.

in a commercial environment it is often necessary to upgrade gear frequently to maintain that cutting edge impression when selling the client on your "abilities", in a private work environment we are not trying to impress anyone but our own ears..

I'm in the USA, where energy costs are pretty cheap, and I genereally use laptops for a lot of music production. They typically use 65 watt power supplies, which is around the draw of an incandescent light bulb. not a particularly large amount of power. My audio amp and preamp probably draw more power.

Hell my guitar amp draws more power.....

newer faster more expensive CPU's are not incredible new technology, they are just standing on the shoulders of the last generation.

Typically the only improvement is more cores, which allow more simultaneous processing, which is only important if your software can use more cores, otherwise they sit idling.

Essentially, an older computer can do most everything a newer computer can do,

but cheaper and perhaps a little bit slower.

Speed is relative, a few microseconds is basically imperctible to humans.

If you are launching rockets or doing robotic surgery, a few microseconds is important.

if your making beats and layering synths, its not typically worth spending thousands of dollars and time and effort to upgrade.

There will be millions of computers coming off lease and being discarded and released into the 2nd hand channel this year in the Summer and Autumn, to get ahead of the "new" Windows 12 hardware requirements.

What was more than good enough 6 months ago will be inadequate simply by a decree from Microsoft.

If you want a "newer" computer,

just wait six months and their will be a landslide of lightly used computers being sold at Fire Sale Prices!!!

Me i'm quite happy with what I already have.

I learned long ago to let someone else pay for the engineering and marketing cost of new computers (the early adopters) from an Electrical Engineering friend who explained it all to me.

its a treadmill I refuse to walk upon.

I don't upgrade my guitars or keyboards, because there is a newer guitar or keyboard, lets realize its more about profits for the tech companies than benefits to the users...

 

As you can see, the speed has increased steadily from 1979 to 2025.

 

baffle them with bullshit, is the #1 rule of presentation.

How does this inform users of the difference between a 2020 i7 and a 2024 i7 cpu?

this sort of information is more perinent and germane to the discussion at hand..not 1/2 a century of intergrated circuit history.

Intel 7 150U vs i7-1355U
The Intel Core 7 150U is newer than Intel Core i7-1355U also around 6% faster in multi-threaded (CPU Mark) testing but the CPUs have comparable single-thread rating. Both CPUs operates at simliar power levels (TDP). All the CPUs in this comparison belong in the Laptop CPU Class.The values below were tabulated from a combined 1418 benchmarks submitted from our PerformanceTest software and results and are updated daily to include new submissions.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5944vs5317/Intel-7-150U-vs-Intel-i7-1355U

of course a CPU is but one element of a computer, it is the sum of these parts that ultimately determines performance, and is the user who decides how much performance is affordable and desirable.

 

Tell me, you're getting lost in the details. What I meant was that a CPU from 1970 is pretty slow and a CPU from today is very fast. So I'll go for a modern CPU after all. Of course, I've read your argument that I think there's little difference between 1-3 years of computer development. I also have a PC with Windows 7 and AMD - FX-8350 processor - boxed - socket AM3+. I don't actually need anything new, but I've built a new PC with Windows 11 and a Ryzen anyway.

 

Maybe the question should be rephrased:

• is there any disadvantage to using an older machine
• is there any disadvantage to using a newer machine

The second one is easy: there is no disadvantage to using a newer machine by itself per se, however be prepared to use dongles (TB, USB-C, etc), and to say goodbye to some older equipment you might have relied upon previously. This is the reason why some of us (yours truly included) have kept older computers with SCSI-CD ROM interfaces, PCI/e cards, etc. Until the L.A. fires I even had two Atari 1040STe computers so I could load and recall all my old projects, sequences, Sysex Data patches, etc.

The first one is not so easy: you need to evaluate what your single points of failures are using this older machine. Could be the HD, the GRFX card, the RAM, the keyboard, the mouse (I spent 2-3 months once scouring eBay for working Atari and Roland S-760 mouses), the monitors... So it could be internal, peripheral, or even your audio interface(s) that are single points of failure.

If it helps you make a choice, my rule of thumb is to Resist, Resist, Resist (any upgrade), until you 1) have the money to leapfrog into the future (i.e., buy what's going to last you the longest), and 2) have the time, patience and energy to reinstall all your software and look for solutions to integrate all your studio hardware with the new computer.

I apply this Resistance to my Mac laptops and iPhone as well: never ever trust another company with your business (and/or sanity). Never. Take your time, save your money, and then when you leap, you do so knowing you've the safety net of your older machine to fall back on until you get back on your feet.

 

I understand, I've built a many a computer myself.

I think there can be a made a list of the true top 10 CPU improvements, and the rest is just incremental. The inclusion of math coprocessors on board the cpu die, was a big deal, that was the 386DX. The improvement from and 8bit cpu to a 16 bit cpu was great, that was the 80286, The 32bit to 64 bit was a big deal, intel wanted to break free of 32 bit legacy software, AMD offered an alternative, The AMD64 chips, the first being the Opteron in April 2003, this lead eventually to 64 bit operating systems, the first practical version of which was Windows7, though XP had a 64 bit version, it had driver problems and other problems as well. Windows7 was the big foray into the what we consider "modern" computing, the following iterations, Windows Vista etc were just variations of Windows7, many changes were cosmetic such as the METRO interface in Windows8.

Memory speeds, bus width and refresh rates improved tremendously over the decades, most modern user can't tell much difference from ddr3, ddr4 and ddr5 ram, its nanoseconds of difference.

hardrive interfaces improved in both width (amount of data that could be transferred in a chunk) and speed, (how fast the chunk could be transmitted), a good sata or nvme interface is sufficient for common computing needs. SSD's reduced access time being purely electronic devices, their latency is very low.

all computers since around 2012 have included most if not all of these "improvements" and I would say all computers since 2020 have included the most refined and integrated versions of these improvement.

a 2024 computer will not get you a whole lot of improvement over a 2023 computer, unless you are upgrading cpus,memory etc.
even then its more a matter of the number of CPU cores and how much memory they can address more than anything else.

a 2025 computer, at this point is just a 2024 computer. as all cars begin to look more alike and are available in only limited colours, so too computers are becoming commodities, like microwave ovens, offering the same utility at many price levels, but only varying in stainless steel exteriors or other gimmicks to attract buyers.

I'd rather spend money on just about anything rather than another computer. the thrill is gone..

 

"Software has the advantage that it doesn't break because it's digital."

anyone who beleives this has never had the audio system on their pc stop working because of a windows update. software breaks all the time, bank machines stop working. Flights are cancelled, etc.

 

That was referring to virtual software synthesizers.

 

You understand how it all works. You actually use your brain and are sensible, more of you and the world would be a better place. Congratulations, you are one of the 20 favorite people here in the forum that I really like.

In the past, people drove carriages and horses, the car and the invention of the diesel engine were groundbreaking. Carriages are still in use but are not the means of transport we use today. That is what we call progress, from the Neanderthals in the valley to the hunters and sammers, to settled farmers and cattle breeding, and finally to high-tech devices.

Stupid consumers who always need something new are the target of every tech company and politician, that's how you keep the masses quiet, work hard, pay your taxes, leave the thinking to us, you can buy something with it...! You can also choose between Amazon or Apple, so buy and make us all rich. Marketing and advertising psychologists work hard to understand your weak points and to convince you of products that you don't actually need. The pharmaceutical industry cannot make money from healthy people.

Windows 23 (tuned Windows 7 with gold contacts, diamonds for an additional charge), CPU Intel 2030 0.00000005 faster and another new PC case that, thanks to the invention of LEDs, illuminates your dreary world with colorful flashing lights.

But the industry has to pay its loans otherwise it can close down, so the consumer, the stupid consumer, will continue to buy goods that he does not need and that break quickly or go out of fashion. My friend drives a Ferrari, it is 2.7 km faster and red. I sell my Porsche and show my neighbors that my SUV is bigger and wider than yours... And then money flows, including taxes, and petrol is getting more expensive every year anyway.

 

Though it seems that everyone else is discussing Windows machines, this also applies to Macs. Over the past 15 years, since switching from PC to Mac, I've gone from PowerPC architecture, to Intel 32-bit, and gradually through the enforcement of 64-bit-only software. I'm on 2017 iMac and Macbook Pro, which could be considered "old" for Macs, with OS 13 running. OS 14 would require me to upgrade my hardware to 2019 or newer Intel Macs, and I'm putting off even thinking about that for another couple of years or until my 2017 iMac might break irreparably. I can run the latest Adobe stuff on my 2017 Intel with OS 13. though the latest Logic Pro requires OS 14.4, but I don't care. I can do everything I need to do, and shall need to do for a long time, on my current setup.

 

Some internal soundcards sound better than some usb externals & as for sound quality! Windows 7 has the best sound compared to all new windows versions.

 

"old for macs" is basically 5 years. I have the same 2017 macbook pro, 15in Retina, touchbar, 2.7ghz Intel i7, internal ssd and ram upgraded model, running Ventura still. I have now a little iMac 21 in 4K retina, i5 intel 3.4 quad core also on Ventura because I just got it for 100 bucks and had to do a very small repair but now works perfectly. And I'm still using my 2010 Mac Pro 5,1 dual 3.66 ghz Xeons 128GB , 3 internal samsung SSDs, as my main DAW computer with Logic 10.5 and audiogridder connected via it's second ethernet port to a cheap Asus laptop for any R2R iLok stuff instead of Crossgridder because virtualization of plugins sucks. I had to stick a 17 dollar nvidia graphics card in it for metal compliance to run Mojave. It will run all 32bit plugins such as Audioease Altiverb 7, current Wavelab, and most importantly keeps audio over usb functionality for the Virus TI2 KB. The 5,1 is a tank, but bad energy efficiency! (like I care). Using HW synths via USB into the DAW sucks using a hub or a USB to Thunderbolt 3 adapter. That stupid little piece of plastic is as easy to find as hens teeth.

The benefit of old machines? Price. Not being a beta test site for a new cpu architecture. Not needing a new computer to match your new purse when you take your whole studio with you to Starbucks. ;)