Whenever I look up some older threads regarding Cubase's superiority over other DAWs one of the main arguments used is the "it has the best MIDI editing capabilities out of all the DAWs" and I always wondered how true is it in this day and age.

Ableton Live 12.1 has some really advanced MIDI editing features that (in my opinion) are much easier to use than some of Cubase's MIDI editing features. Obviously, Cubase has the "Logical Editor" which allows you to script your own events that can do multiple operations at once etc. But even with that, it feels really cumbersome in my opinion. Am I missing something? Is there really anything that Cubase does better in terms of MIDI than Ableton, or even FL Studio at this point, in 2025?

 

Ableton is very stable and is being used by musicians making live music right now. You either like it or you don't. Cubase is professional but it is difficult for some to get used to it. Fl Studio cannot compete in that league. Both DAWs are at the cutting edge of technology and are constantly being developed.

Unfortunately, you did not say what you are currently using. Ableton has a different structure; if you can handle it, you will achieve the same results as Cubase and vice versa. Test both DAWs thoroughly and then decide.

 

I use Reaper and Ableton interchangably, but I've been dabbling Cubase for a while now. My Reaper is heavily costumized, but that's also its flaw, I constantly have to refine its functionality, which steers me away from writing music. Cubase reminds me of Reaper, but also feels very archaic and, like I've mentioned, slow. Live seems a lot more modern, faster, despite missing some of Cubase's features. So in the end, I can't really make up my mind, lol. Just want to know if I'm missing out on some crucial features by using one instead of the other.

 

Yeah, I think there are many daws that can accomplish similar ends, and while I'm not as familiar at all with Cubase, from what I read, it can keep up with Ableton, and hell, while Ableton can do so much, I don't think they implemented sys ex until somewhat recently for the most part. And Logic back in the day (eMagic days), and pulling your sleeves up and getting into the environment etc .. or using Max (ircams version licensed by Opcode back in the day).. was a rabbit hole...

If you are into advance midi editing and processing and scripting, I probably wouldn't go with Protools, but there is some parity on the field with a lot of them, or different end arounds... I don't know unless I absolutely depended on something one couldn't do that I would learn a new daw at this point (like if I was on Cubase and had to go to Ableton to do something kinda thing)...

I use around 3 daws right now, and not looking to add more as I've gotten lazy I guess....

A lot of it is a matter of taste, familiarity, and what you are trying to do obviously...

 

I've been wondering about it as well. When I decided to try Cubase - I couldn't really find all those best and unique MIDI capabilities. The tools it has to offer are the same as in other DAWs. MIDI Transformations also didn't seem that extensive. I feel like they've all caught up. Ableton doesn't have the expression maps or in other words, sound variations and score sheets, but other DAWs do.
It could be that Cubase was way too complicated for me to find all the possibilities, but by looking at the documentation and the YouTube videos with all the midi "secrets" I couldn't find anything unique about Cubase MIDI capabilities that other DAWs couldn't offer.

 

Use Ableton, you'll be happier and more satisfied. If you're missing something, there are also plenty of plugins you can install or tools from external Ableton developers. www.ableton.com/de/packs/

 

I feel exactly the same way and I honestly don’t think you’re wrong about Cubase not being “special”, or at least noticeably better or unique compared to other DAWs out there.

I keep getting lured in by those big promises I constantly see online and it’s a good DAW, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t feel like it lives up to the “best DAW for MIDI work” hype (besides expression maps, but Logic and Studio One also come with those and I’m pretty sure there’s a pretty easy 3rd party setup possible for Ableton and even FL Studio regarding that, so), on top of that, there’s a lot of confusing stuff, like the MIDI modifiers not giving you a “live” feedback before applying the modifiers (Ableton pretty much does the same thing, i.e it uses this menu on the left hand side of the piano roll that allows you to apply different “modifiers” to your MIDI, except it gives you a much better graphical representation of what is happening with your score, you can actually see the notes move/you can preview the changes before commiting, and Ableton is much snappier at that). So I think most of the “it’s the best DAW for MIDI” comes from logical editor being a thing and the possibility of having a chain of actions under a key command, but even then, a lot of those custom commands seem limited by the legacy feeling of Cubase (or like the ancient code won’t really let you go deep, cuz something would break in the process), I feel like, i.e. you can only do so much with it and Reaper does the custom commands thing 10x better anyways, so it always feels underpowered in Cubase, imo.

I don’t know, maybe I’m weird.

 

When you hear X has the best MIDI editing capabilities, I think the terms of the premise are never really defined. The best for what exactly? The MIDI editing I require for what I do may not be the same as what someone else needs.

Cubase is great for a MIDI workflow defined by recording MIDI from a keyboard controller, and then editing that data to clean it up. It has a number of tools that makes this process great. Live on the other hand has a ton of tools for creating and manipulating MIDI data in the absence of a keyboard controller. Trying to edit recorded MIDI in Live is a pain in the ass compared to Cubase. Trying to match the time warping capabilities Live can perform on MIDI is impossible in Cubase.

Hopefully that answers your question.

 

Just a couple of things I can think of right now from top of my head.

1. Ableton MIDI tracks do not follow global time signature. Each MIDI track has its own time signature parameter and if it says 4/4 then it's going to be 4/4 and only 4/4 and will not change to anything else even if there are time signature changes in your project, and you cannot automate it manually to change it. You will have to split MIDI track each time change happens and manually change to the correct one, on every single track, all manually, one at a time.

2. Changing note velocities is a bit different between these two DAWs. Ableton is straightforward, you grab notes, you drag velocities and it changes it for all notes for exactly the same amount you increase or decrease. Cubase scales velocities up or down and keeps in mind relation between louder and quieter notes. If you have accented louder notes and normal quieter ones when you change velocity up or down Cubase will move louder notes more than quieter ones. For example if you have all your notes at 80 and accent at 100 in Ableton if you drag them all up by 20 then you'll have normal notes at 100 and accent at 120, in Cubase you would get accent at 120 and normal notes around 112 or something like that, I don't know exact numbers it's just an arbitrary example.

3. A bit of follow up on second point. Drawing crescendos is way better in Cubase again because it respects existing note velocities and works with them. In Ableton to make for example just a simple drum roll that rises in volume with each drum hit you either manually drag brush tool with your mouse across selected notes or hold CTRL and draw a straight line with it. But if you want to have accented notes you will have to draw them manually afterwards, while Cubase you can just select your notes with accents already in place and just hover mouse around left corner of your selected notes and drag it down and it will create a nice and even crescendo exactly how you want it and it will keep all accented notes in place and scale them appropriately.

4. Editing MIDI CC is a major pain in the butt in Ableton, by far the worst thing about it. Every time you want to change modulation or expression you have to go to envelopes panel, double click to open it, select MIDI Ctrl (and reselect it almost every time because if you have any other automations for effects or literally any plugin on that track it will auto select it instead of MIDI controls every time you change anything), find MIDI CC you want to edit and only then you can edit it. You cannot add any MIDI CC to its own lane in the MIDI editor and you cannot add them to the normal automation lane either. You have to manually navigate all this UI mess every single time you want to edit your MIDI automations, for every single track, one at a time. And on top of that while you're editing MIDI CC automation you cannot edit anything else about your MIDI clip, not the velocity, not the note position, not the length, nothing. You must manually keep switching between notes and envelopes tabs.

5. MIDI export. It's a joke in Ableton. No other word to describe it besides useless. Can only export 1 track at a time and it can't write any data to it, not even the tempo.

There are some other things I won't remember right now but I would say everything else is pretty minor. I use both Ableton and Cubase. I prefer the easy and fast workflow, intuitive clean and uncluttered UI of Ableton and I find it to be far superior for working with audio files and manipulating them. But I do think Cubase is indeed better for working with MIDI (and video too but that's offtopic) because of its more sophisticated toolkit. If I need something simple done I always go for Ableton because it's more simple to use for me, but if I have a big project I just have to work in Cubase mostly because of the reasons mentioned above.

 

Last edited: Feb 6, 2025

yeah, re:^ what @Semarus was saying... everyone approaches this differently and has different needs and tastes and history and proclivities, so to claim one is "best" is a fools errand... It really depends. There are definitely some that won't do what you may want, and there are some that are strong in different areas, but not great at others you may want... and familiarity and workflow taste etc play a role... I'm not ever gonna daw shame or argue with someone about the tools they use that gets them where they want you know?

 

I think people have to work with what they love. I also love the list editor in Cubase and the drop-down mouse options in each area if you configure it properly. The macro editors (making your own i.e.) are also useful.

Ableton has its own thing as does Cubase. Studio One and Logic also have high level MIDI abilities with Logic having as its earliest foundation 'Notator' which was stronger than Cubase in the MIDI department initially. Personally, having so many features available for nearly every DAW I think means we all benefit as the end result because the competitors have to adapt to those changes and we reap the rewards. I do not think it matters which major DAW you use anymore.

MIDI importing in Cubase is better than many people realise. It attempts to keep the source data from where it was exported. Say for example if you were to use a scoring application like Sibelius or Finale (now defunct), it manages to capture 90% of all the subtle nuances you manually put in the score from crescendos, sfz/ppp/sfz swells and more... It is far from perfect but it seems to be extremely adaptable with importing from 3rd party apps. It does the same if you export from Reason, Logic or other apps too. It is not perfect but it is very good. It also adapts to the two main versions, MIDI 0 and MIDI 1 well. MIDI 2 is functional as well though most do not export in 2 as yet.

 

Last edited: Feb 6, 2025

If you want to waste your entire life, use Live. It's all up to you to decide.

 

How does one 'warp' MIDI other than just moving your notes around in the arrangment?

As long as your audio files aren't a mess, Cubase can turn on and off audio warping as easy as selecting it in the arrangement window for each audio track. I own both, Live is a little more immediate, and its concept of 'clips' makes it easier to manage, but both can pull off the same shit in almost the exact same way, even down to having to adjust hit points if you need to. Even Halion and Groove Agent both have Audio Warp built in, just turn it on and tell it how many bars your sample is.

 

Are you familiar with how MIDI Time Warp works in Live?

 

If you want to waste your entire life, marry my ex wife. Live on the other hand has given me years of happiness

 

Can you elaborate? Otherwise your statement is useless to us

 

It's almost impossible you use Live and make good music with it. Well-nigh impossible ...

 

Depends how you define "warp" really, but you can scale audio freely in the piano roll (as in, select a bunch of notes and compress/stretch time with or without quantize), then there's stretch tool in clip "Pitch and Time" options, and in Live 12 there's "Time Warp" MIDI Transform tool. I personally just use the piano roll scale/warp to create various tuplets, since you can't otherwise easily do say quintuplets or septuplets.

But as you said, one gets there regardless of the DAW used.

 

Nice bait again.

All you're saying is that "I don't know how to make good music" and "I have no clue how Ableton works".

 

Whoooooshh...