'Did I understand you correctly, the problem no longer occurs?'

No, still happens. I mean that it doesn't happen if it's a device that's not connected to Live, again suggesting it's to do with Live.

 

I'm going to try an old version of Ableton.

 

Yep, I'll do that.

 

And Live is installed in the Windows environment!

 

Ok, it's Ableton. Works fine with the earlier version of 12. I'll just have to put up with it until it's sorted as none of my tracks open now. Thank you for the support, greatly appreciated.

 

It's not your usb cables, your synth, your audio interface, or your operating system. Some problem like this which is working in an older version of the DAW software should really not dramatically change from one build to the next, when it comes to stuff they already had working. New features in a beta, or things like that may be broken, but not basic functionality of something as simple as hardware synths.

You might want to try a newer version again to get your projects back open. You could try reinstalling the new version from scratch, with all default settings. You could try to disconnect all usb devices from the computer before you start the reinstallation. You should not have to, but it would not hurt.

 

I found A12 so unreliable ... i'm back to A11

 

Reinstalled but just the same. I'm actually finding it hard to believe it is Live, like you say you wouldn't expect it from one build to the next. And why just that synth. I'll see what they come back with.

 

What are the specific version/build numbers of the old vs new? You could then look at the changelog and maybe see if there is some mention of anything related. Here's a GPT answer about it, below. Look it over and see if any of it is something that has been skipped over. Sometimes it just is what it is; but this one just is not normal.

You might want to try doing a cleanup with something like Revo Uninstaller, and reinstalling from as close to "clean install" as possible. Where it even does registry cleanup.



You said:
reasons why my moog sub37 disconnects from newest ableton version but works with the older version

ChatGPT said:
The issue of your Moog Sub37 disconnecting from the newest version of Ableton Live but working fine with an older version could stem from several potential causes. Here are some reasons to explore and troubleshoot:

1. Driver or Firmware Compatibility

• Outdated Firmware: Ensure your Moog Sub37 firmware is up-to-date. Older firmware might not fully support newer software features or protocols in the latest Ableton version.
• MIDI Driver Issues: Newer versions of Ableton might use updated MIDI protocols. Check if your Moog Sub37's drivers are the latest and fully compatible with your operating system.

2. Changes in Ableton's MIDI Configuration

• MIDI Preferences: Newer versions of Ableton might have changes in how MIDI devices are configured. Verify that the Sub37 is enabled in Preferences > Link/Tempo/MIDI under MIDI Ports for both input and output.
• Control Surface Settings: Ensure that the Sub37 is correctly set up as a control surface if you're using it in this way.

3. Operating System Updates

• The newest Ableton might depend on certain OS-level updates or configurations that impact how MIDI devices are recognized and maintained. Ensure your OS is updated to a version compatible with the latest Ableton Live.

4. USB Power Management

• Power Issues: Newer versions of Ableton could require a more stable or robust USB connection. If your USB connection is unstable, the Sub37 might disconnect. Try using a powered USB hub or directly connecting to a USB port on your computer.
• Sleep Settings: Check your computer's USB power settings to ensure ports don’t go into power-saving mode.

5. Changes in Ableton's Audio/MIDI Engine

• Updates to the MIDI engine in newer Ableton versions might have introduced changes or bugs that could interfere with device compatibility.
• Check the Ableton Live release notes to see if there are any mentions of MIDI device handling changes or known issues.

6. Sub37 MIDI Configuration

• Double-check the Sub37's internal MIDI settings (e.g., MIDI channel, clock source). A mismatch between the device and Ableton’s settings could cause connectivity issues.

7. Conflict with Other MIDI Devices

• Newer Ableton versions might handle multiple MIDI devices differently. If you have other MIDI devices connected, they could be causing conflicts. Try disconnecting other devices to test.

8. Ableton-Specific Bugs

• If the newest Ableton version has a bug related to MIDI or USB devices, check Ableton's forums or support site. You may find others reporting similar issues.

Steps to Troubleshoot:

1. Update Everything:
   • Update your Moog Sub37 firmware.
   • Update Ableton Live to the latest patch (if you're not already on it).
   • Update your operating system (if compatible).
2. Test Connection in MIDI Preferences:
   • Reconfigure the Sub37 in Preferences in Ableton Live.
   • Test MIDI input and output functionality.
3. Check Ableton Logs:
   • Ableton Live logs can sometimes provide hints about connection failures. Look for any error messages related to the Sub37.
4. Use a Different USB Cable or Port:
   • Test with another USB cable or port to rule out hardware issues.
5. Revert to a Previous Ableton Version:
   • If the issue persists and no updates resolve it, consider reverting to the older version of Ableton that works reliably with your Sub37.

 

Last edited: Jan 20, 2025

ATTN: experienced DAW and MIDI users! Sub37 sequencer
https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22994

In the proposed scheme you would set the sequencer output mode to "local" (i.e. not MIDI)... if the sequencer is not putting out MIDI, then the Sub37's MIDI output would be the regular MIDI notes corresponding to the keys you play... which in this context is the triggers for the sequencer that you are talking about.

In the v1.0.7 firmware, this is handled by the Global setting SEQ OPTIONS -> MIDI OUTPUT. The options are SEQ or KEYS. The main thing this does is to control whether the MIDI output is sequence/arp notes, or the actual keys played on the keyboard, when the arp is running.

However it has another function as well... when local control is off, the sequencer is triggered only by incoming MIDI notes, or only by the local keyboard, depending on this setting.

So if Local Control is OFF, and SEQ OPTIONS->MIDI OUTPUT is set to SEQ, then the sequencer is only triggered by the local keyboard and not by incoming MIDI notes. If Local Control is OFF and SEQ OPTIONS->MIDI OUTPUT is set to KEYS, then the sequencer is only triggered by incoming MIDI and not by the local keyboard.

That is a little confusing to be sure, especially since the last function I described (controlling whether the sequencer is listening to MIDI or local keys) is not documented anywhere other than in this very post. It's not obvious that changing a MIDI OUTPUT mode would necessarily determine how the sequencer responds to MIDI INPUT.

It also does not allow for the sequencer to be triggered by MIDI notes while outputting sequenced MIDI notes, unless Local Control is on. So this is the situation that I am trying to improve... and I'd like to do it without requiring the user to understand and tweak too many different settings.

The simplest way would be to have NO settings, and a sequencer that just works in one certain way and that's all you get. But that's never been my style.

 

When Windows drops the usb connection to the device, none of that matters. The synth has not been changed and two different versions of Ableton work differently. It has nothing to do with the synth or its saved onboard parameters, or it wouldn't work with either one.

 

Thanks again. Been through most of this list, all up-to-date etc. I had a look at the Ableton log I sent and, although I don't understand it, I did notice it names the Moog and 'fail' so maybe they'll get back to me with an answer one day.

 

Helpful forum?
Moog --> https://forum.moogmusic.com
Subsequent 37 & Subsequent 25 --> https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewforum.php?f=21

Sub 37 power issue

Check your Midi menu 2.1 settings.
set it to USB or DIN depends on how you connected it.
and important: set Midi/DIN ECHO = off!
If you connected via USB don't use a USB-HUB use the direct USB port of your PC!
USB sometimes fails so it's maybe better to use Midi DIN cables.

https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?t=37076

Subsequent 37: MIDI issues persist?

Check the MIDI cables and connections. Make sure that the MIDI cables are properly connected to both the Subsequent 37 and Logic Pro X. You may also want to try using different MIDI cables to see if that resolves the issue.

Try using a different MIDI interface. If you are using a USB MIDI interface, try using a different interface, such as a FireWire or Thunderbolt interface.

Check the MIDI buffer size in Logic Pro X. A low MIDI buffer size can cause dropouts and other playback issues. Try increasing the MIDI buffer size to see if that resolves the issue.

Check the CPU usage in Logic Pro X. If Logic Pro X is using too much CPU, it can cause dropouts and other playback issues. Try closing any unnecessary applications and plugins to reduce CPU usage.
Reset the Subsequent 37 to factory default settings. This may resolve any underlying issues with the Subsequent 37. To reset the Subsequent 37 to factory default settings, hold down the Function and Preset buttons for 10 seconds.

If you have tried all of the above steps and you are still having problems, then it is possible that there is a hardware problem with the Subsequent 37. In this case, you koows will need to contact Moog support for assistance.

https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?t=36790

 

Last edited: Jan 21, 2025

Windows is dropping the connection. Not a Mac and Not Logic. Either you keep flooding this topic with completely incorrect stuff on purpose, or you need some new glasses.

The synth works in one version of Ableton and not in another. It has nothing to do with the Moog.

 

Read my previous post. He also confirmed my tip from the Ableton log. Since his other devices do not break the MIDI connection, it is probably more likely to be due to the hardware synthesizer, its settings or the MIDI cable, power supply, or perhaps there is damage to the synthesizer itself, in which case you have to send the device in to have it checked.

He wrote that the problem continues in both versions of Ableton. after reading through the Moog forum, see my previous post,

 

Last edited: Jan 21, 2025

Subsequent 37: MIDI issues persist?

Check the MIDI cables and connections. Make sure that the MIDI cables are properly connected to both the Subsequent 37.
You may also want to try using different MIDI cables to see if that resolves the issue.

Try using a different MIDI interface.
If you are using a USB MIDI interface, try using a different interface, such as a FireWire or Thunderbolt interface.

Check the MIDI buffer size . A low MIDI buffer size can cause dropouts and other playback issues.
Try increasing the MIDI buffer size to see if that resolves the issue.

Check the CPU usage. If Ableton is using too much CPU, it can cause dropouts and other playback issues.
Try closing any unnecessary applications and plugins to reduce CPU usage.

Reset the Subsequent 37 to factory default settings. This may resolve any underlying issues with the Subsequent 37.
To reset the Subsequent 37 to factory default settings, hold down the Function and Preset buttons for 10 seconds.

If you have tried all of the above steps and you are still having problems, then it is possible that there is a hardware problem with the Subsequent 37. In this case, you koows will need to contact Moog support for assistance.

https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?t=36790

 

Last edited: Jan 21, 2025

Wrong. See above. Maybe you should stick to your software toys. Robot broken.

 

Last edited: Jan 21, 2025

A few posts later the error appeared again. Your statement is incorrect, see comment below.

 

He reinstalled the newer version to compare them, now that we know the problem is isolated to Ableton. No thanks to you flooding the thread with BS, of course.

 

Last edited: Jan 21, 2025