@clone Interesting ideas re sample, will def keep it in mind. Though I'm not sure I have an issue with the repetitive nature of the loop; the live conga helps break that up, especially in the break and choruses. He locks down much more on the verses, which I like too.

Tried out the voxengo span plugin - man that helps find masking frequencies. Right around 225Hz, almost certainly an open tone of one of the sampled congas.

Thx for the tips!

 

https://we.tl/t-jolevjXobG

 

Fwiw I ended up at 'don't try to make your Recorded bass something it's not' (ie cutting) and embraced it's natural , dark sound more.

 

Not quite perfect but a nice, varied and interesting song, very invigorating and fresh...!

 

Appreciate it (and still tweaking atound the edges)! Wish flats didn't take so long to break in; I'd redo bass with a pair of medium Fenders. Live and learn.

 

I produce and mix latin music for years now. It's all percussion based. If you're an average rock/pop/hip hop producer you may find struggles in the midway because the gain structure is completly diferent, so if you mix a latin record like a hip hop or rock record, the result will sound unatural or kinda Santana/Jaycen Joshua style, which is not bad, but far from the roots and tradition of latin music.

If you're into getting great on latin music Tito Puente should be like standard study object. Not only him, but you should pay attention to Fania records like an r&b head pays for Motown or dub head for Black Ark or Studio One.

If you have a common drumkit (kick, snare, hihats, toms etc), they should be lower at levels to bring attention for the percs. Congas are loud as snares on rock. A good rock snare is fat and lots of information area on 200-350 hz area, and so are the congas. If there's a lot of interplay (which is the case of the record OP posted) and it gets fatigating, try to use a slow release compressor so the interplay can gets smoother and kill a bit of the annoying transients. For transient shapers, try to reduce a bit of attack and bring more of the release, so they get fatter and more audible without annoying peaks. Don't overdo this, but with a good listening, the percs get a nice and humanized bounce.

In short: balance the bass with the low and hi percs, and after that start bringing up the drumkit, praying for mercy, in a way they don't get in the way of the percs and bass.

For the track i think it's ok, just the low percussion (congas) have too much attack and the hihat it's a little loud on the transitions. And you got room for the kick drum on the drumkit, as long as you don't have any essential percussive information on the low end. It's always about the space you have after balancing the bass with the percs.

Edit: i liked this version

 

Thanks, a lot of good feedback there.

I should mention - I don't consider this Latin music. Just a (somewhat offbeat) rock/pop tune that happened to sample Mulatu Astatke, whose newer bands play more West than East African rhythmically speaking.

BTW I played in an Ethiojazz influenced group for years that included the live percussion player heard here, pedal steel, and dubby guitar effects. When people asked what kind of music that was, I would just say Midwestern. Different sounds but same general concept here.

Tito does absolutely rule fwiw! I studied his records closely when I was writing for that group.

I have to agree with your remarks on balance, and especially the attack on percussion. I emphasized attack to clear up a bit of space, since the original sample seemed to have such an open sound that was hard for me to cut through. It's a little too 'clicky' now but I run into other issues when i open things up.

 

It's improving a lot. I kind of wonder about the surf guitar slapback (dubby gtr. effects!) with the percussion now. To me that doesn't vibe. Just a thought Cool idea though. What happens if you just ditch the percussion and mix it as a cool dub kind of song?

 

@Smeghead

>ditch the percussion
Nah, tbh the programmed drums sound terrible on their own - decent blended in though. And the live percussion (single conga) blended with sample percussion really makes the arrangement happen.

Re slapback ... yeah, I am doing this soooo on the cheap. I actually recorded in via my Mustang Micro headphone amp, so that's there on the recorded track. I think it sounds great on parts(the palm muted part in verses especially). But on the arpeggios, I agree with you, it doesn't vibe.

So, maybe I'll rerecord those. Fortunately those real easy parts to play. Unfortunately I'm trying to finish mixing a whole EP and don't want to get distracted by retracking! We'll see. Thanks for the feedback again.

 

BOOM... gold star. The drummer generally is only a pulse/timekeeper in most Latin and Cuban music and tends to play sidestick, sometimes only kick and hi-hat, so as not to get in the way. Nice post.

There are exceptions like Horatio Hernandez in Michel Camilo's trios where he almost covers the entire percussion section by himself, but they are exceptions to the norm.

 

I absolutely love this trick. Programmed percs sounds like coconut clicks because the feel of hand is hard to reproduce with a static sample shot. So, blending a live perc loop with little shots of programmed percs on the top of the loop is the key to make original, yet, good sounding percussion grooves in the box.

 

I would also mention - no way you're
going to do a good job programming congas etc without having played them at least a little. There's real complexity there. Fortunately I know a great percussionist. He really brought the break and all the choruses to life and broke up the monotony of the loop