Hi - I've got a mix with very dense acoustic afro latin percussion as well as programmed (acoustic) drums. Bass is Fender P with heavy flats,played fingerstyle, DI track only, very dark. As you might suspect I'm having trouble getting it to maintain it's natural punch when mixed with all the percussion. Wondering what people's ideas on how to approach this might be.

Here's the in progress track ...

And a quick remix after considering a few comments here

Thanks to anyone who responds

Brian

 

Last edited: Jan 12, 2025

Well... *ME*, I'd worry about the hi-hats first. They distract me to the point I hear nothing else. I'd say sort that then we can take on other issues...

 

I think the bass is okay, the kick is rather too low. the percussion are obviously too loud. shaker or hihat whatever.

 

You are correct - forgot I had really ducked down the kick on this mix trying to clear space for bass. Will repost...

 

Most Cuban and Latin music is completely percussion based. Anyone who knows anything about Latin music knows this. They also know the drums are the support not the front, but you have created a non-traditional Latin tune. You have gone for a more modern rock-latin feel though , so maybe the drums need to come up. Traditional Latin music is mostly in 6/8 or 4/4 and variations with either a 2:3 or a 3:2 clave.
This has more of an alt-rock-Latin 3/4 feel rather than a 6/8? There is no true clave in this.

Even though your music is more rock modernized, have a listen to people like Tito Puente, Ray Baretta, The Escovedo family if you actually want to go more traditional. Google them and a pile more Latin musicians will come up.... otherwise as a rockier feel maybe the percussion should not be so up front as the bass is right more for a traditional piece. If you wanted clarity in the bass, a jazz bass would have worked better.

 

Last edited: Jan 12, 2025

https://we.tl/t-t2Ng5PoH1T

 

Last edited: Jan 12, 2025

@Somnambulist All good points. For reference, there's the track I sampled. Ethiojazz!

 

I'm think I got myself lost in the weeds a while back on this one. I love the sampled percussion; the programmed kit by comparison sounds robotic and cold to my ears. That percussion was also very prominent on the source material. Anyway, that probably led me towards having it run too hot. So simple volume only adjustments this time through:

Hi hat wayyyy down (did I mention my high frequency hearing is fried?), sampled percussion down a bit, kick up a decent amount.

Feels like it helps to some degree. Right now I'm not sure if I'm enjoying the bass more tonally, or if it just seems louder to me.

 

did you listen the file i sent ?

 

Ethno Jazz Metal!
The bass is way too loud.
Why don't you make a version without bass?

 

@Radio yeah I have to agree with you. Went from being masked by percussion to too loud. But I consider it an integral.part of the arrangement.

 

@vuldegger missed that, just did now. Wondering what you did there ... some quick mastering of sorts it seems like. Thank you for taking the time to do that

 

I understand your concept of rhythms well and I find the versatility and liveliness quite extraordinary and lively. However, my listening pleasure is unfortunately somewhat limited, too brutal, how about transporting up 1-2 octaves or less bass.

 

@Radio less bass is a given, though I'm wondering if that's going to take me back to my original issue of bass clarity/punch. Wondering what you mean by 'brutal'?

 

for me the congas have to change way more. a human player would never be able to play this so robotically. they are also too prominent in the mix.

I would first put all your drum tracks in the same group. (for me, that would mean in a Logic summing stack). I would use a good EQ like Pro-Q3 (4?) or Claro and clean up any of the masking frequencies you mentioned. You are including a lot of "air" in your channels, so you could reduce information in those ranges without really changing much actual waveform information. Glue it with a compressor but if you want to maintain the "open" feel you have now, use a very low ratio like 1.25:1 or so.

Once you have your drums submixed inside the larger Drums group, do the same thing with your bass tracks. (idk if you have them on multiple channels) You can then check your drums vs your bass for masking, eqing them to fit together, and go from there.

All basic stuff, you just are not done mixing yet. The big one for me is making those congas way less static.

 

I'm from Germany, brutal means aggressive, attacking or violent. So the song is great but half-finished. It's too heavy for me, although Latin or Brazilian music sounds anything but heavy or heavy metal-like, heavy metal, Latin jazz. So I think the song has a great structure and idea, but it's not radio-friendly and it annoys its listeners a bit, so they make more versions of it. Light - Middle - Heavy.

 

@clone Congas are a sample/loop (except for the one you'll hear come in on the instrumental break 0:28), so nothing I can do there. Agree I can glue the percussion/programmed drums, they're processed as two individual groups fairly well I think. It's the masking I just haven't been able to quite figure out.

 

That is a definite 6/8 on the intro of the reference video - Great Afro-Cuban groove on that.
It sounds exactly how it is supposed to otherwise it wouldn't have that vibe.
For some reason yours feels more like a 3 rather than a 6? - I know it sounds like splitting straws, but the reference track has a really strong 6/8 groove.

Here's an old Tito Puente (RIP) tune in 6/8. As you hear the drums are only in support, the percussion is up front as most Latin music is. This might give you some ideas..
You can hear the rhythm section clearest at around 03:50 in the piano solo.
The bass plays differently to hold the groove with the percussion - | 1,2,3 | 1,2+3 |
You'd have to slow the tempo obviously to match your tune.

 

Last edited: Jan 13, 2025

There are lots of ways to add a little movement or variation without doing any big changes. Maybe sidechain a compressor, delay. reverb, or using a nudge if you have something like Logic's Flex Time. If you already have it all merged into one audio file, you can still just put in some cuts to make some regions; or maybe you still have the loop as regions; in which case you can apply some selection based processing. Trial and error for sure, though. Tracks never come with mixing instructions.

For masking, I suggested you setup some groups to make it easier to address. If you are doing top-down mixing, you will be able to clean it up to a certain extent just from the group channels. If you can't correct it there, you work your way backwards into the individual channels in the group to control what you are feeding into the group channels. Your approach can stem from what EQ plugin you are using. Something like Sonible SmartEQ4 could do a little AI assisting. Or you could use Izotope Neutron, which is very common approach.

 

Last edited: Jan 13, 2025