Hi fellow audiosexers!

I need help from you to solve an issue we have in our association where we want to do club parties.

We are in a building that is 13mx9mx4m that is situated at the basement of a 3 floors complex (I apologize if I don't use the correct terms but English is not my native language).

We have 2 Martin Audio W8 plus 2 Martin Audio W8S subwoofers in SALA1 (see attachment).

We received noise complaints from a neighbour that lives at the 3rd floor and from one that lives in the first floor, so just above us.

They feel vibrations in their apartments coming from the subwoofers.
We needed to cut circa 15 dBs to eliminate the problem but we want to do sound insulation to be able to do dj-sets at appropriate levels (max 105 dB A levels).

The construction of the building is made of very thick concrete and we suspect that there's some resonance going on in the pillars/ceiling/walls that make the low frequencies travel to the neighbours' houses.

We would avoid to do a room in a room because it would be not sustainable from an economic point of view for now, we don't have the amount of money necessary to do it and we don't know if the landlord would give us the permission to do this work.

What we had in mind was to completely fill the space with at least 100mm (200 mm is the goal) of high density (150 kg/m3) mineral wool panels directly glued to the walls/ceiling to help the vibrations not going through the structure.
In a second time we could do sound treatment to have a better sound inside but for now sound insulation is the absolute priority.

I made simulations with a software called Insul (version 9) and we should have an improvement of circa 25 dB at 63 hz doing this.

The strange thing is that mineral wool alone gives a better noise reduction that if I put a layer of 12.5 drywall in front of the mineral wool (in the 63/250 hz range).

Assuming that this is correct we would cover the mineral wool panels with fire resistant fabric so that fibers would be contained inside the fabric .

We would use a decoupled wall/ceiling only where necessary just to hang fixtures.

We would want to not do a floating floor because of price but we are concerned of possible floor to walls/pillars low frequency transmission that could nullify our efforts.

My question is: doing this would result in an attenuated low frequency transmission or is simply a waste of time?

Putting a layer of 200mm mineral wool (150kg/m3) outside a window (we don't use it) resulted in an improvement where you could clearly hear a person talking and loud bass to virtual silence (a person screaming is not heard and loud bass became almost inaudible).

From this surpringly good result I thought that maybe this could be a good strategy.

I attached the cadastral plan for you to have an idea of the situation.

"SALA1" is where we have the Martin Audio sound system (3 meters circa from the wall).

In "SALA2" we have 2 15 inches subwoofers and 2 10 inches speakers that we use at low volumes just to have some music in the bar room but this don't create problems.

I should add that we don't want to build a room in a room in SALA1 unless there's no other choice.

Thanks for your attention!

 

I live in a high-rise building myself and the bass actually creeps up several floors, or rather it causes everything to vibrate.

Sometimes the person responsible can do something about it by repositioning the speakers. You can also place the subwoofers and speakers on tennis balls and away from the wall. There needs to be a thick carpet under the subwoofers. Old carpets on the floor also work wonders.

Bass can only be insulated by using a lot of insulation material. 12 - 20 cm.
The "Steico flex wood fiber insulation board - 120x 40 x 2000" costs €22.98 / m².
Unfortunately, all of this is very expensive. The Rockwool insulation materials made of stone wool are non-flammable.

The best thing is of course to put 2 layers of plasterboard in front of it. Plasterboard starts to vibrate and this reduces the noise somewhat.
Actually, there should be 2 cm of space between the wooden frame and the wall, i.e. a doubled wall. Since you have little budget, you should concentrate on the wall and the wall directly next to your neighbor.

It's best to ask your neighbor, after the first layer of insulation, whether he would be willing to do a hearing test.

Noise barriers must actually be approved by the landlord because the room will also be smaller and the heating costs will be calculated differently. Lamps should be removed and replaced with floor lamps because the noise seeks out the weakest spot, the cable, and transmits the sound. Also plaster cracks etc. beforehand! You can also work on the floor later.

 

With it being a full concrete building, the building fabric will reflect more of the transmitted sound then it will absorb.

So unless the sound is only a problem for them when they open their windows & doors, what is causing the problems will be vibrations from the speaker cabinets transmitted directly into the surfaces they touch.

Are the 2 Martin Audio W8 & 2 Martin Audio W8S subwoofers standing on the floor? If yes then mount them on something that keeps them away from the walls or stand them on something. Isolation pads, raised floor, even super thick carpet will be an improvement.

Marshall amps are on casters so that most of the vibrations from the cabinet is lost in movement before reaching the floor and disturbing others in the building who can't hear the music.

if the sound is audible outside and that is the problem, do something to your windows.

To save others looking, are these your speakers?
https://martin-audio.com/downloads/archive/datasheets/W8Sdatasheet.pdf
https://martin-audio.com/downloads/archive/datasheets/W8datasheet.pdf

Rubber grommets and silicone sealant stops that cracking. Floor lamps are a bad idea in a night club, Pub or bar. They'll get knocked over and broken.

 

Sorry for the double post but if you have the budget to make big changes.

Add a ceiling and mount all the speakers in the ceiling with insulation behind.

Lots of speakers above the head of the guests will give the same over all audible volume in the room while actually being quieter and with fewer spots of high intensity.

So less chance of transmitting through the building.

 

not strange .the wool eat the waves ,the drywall reflects .
you could put a thin layer of black spraypaint on the wool and it will still be absorbing but it must be really thin .if you put the wool into blackpainted drywall profiles it may be look acceptable .
im speaking of stonewool plates not rolls .

and no matter how good you install drywalls ,if bass staticly and long working on them they will begin vibrate cause they made from softish gipsum...even planked 3 times i guess...

 

Last edited: Nov 23, 2024 at 7:07 PM

the biggest problem are the subs if they are 18" they are way to overpowered
for that size room + the waves they produce are really effective @ 30m away
that could be the biggest problem!
But even with room in room say 15" subs would be tough to control.

the next problem with insulation is fire security, you could get problems with
Insurance & safety regulations!!
check your local guidelines to be sure

If you train your dj's to be very mindful & convince them quality over loudness
THEN the 2 W8 with 12" or 15" should be very good, maybe not in an empty room
but a full room should be fine

 

xs/the box in frankfurt had subwoovers as long as the dancefloor ,7 meters or so and room was 9 metrs or so but no living appartments above .

you sure mate this is done with woofers ? would need real thru ceiling wall anker screws i could imagine and super special wire/chains or rubberband

 

Last edited: Nov 23, 2024 at 7:52 PM

No, when i wrote that I was thinking with this room size and the ceiling height it'd be easier to get the sound wanted from 8 no. 12'' speaker cones or smaller ceiling mounted.

Put the ceiling in with a void of about 250mm to pack with insulation. Assuming the average person is 2000mm tall, the travel distance for the sound will be only 1750mm so you can keep the volumes down. and still sound loud to the listener. Use a EQ to reduce the high frequencies & give the low frequency intense sound your looking for.

It's a loosing battle trying to get sub woofers to spread evenly accross a room when the crowed is inches from the equipment. The people at the front absorb most of it so the volume ends up needing to be massive to reach the back or center of the audience, depending on how you place the equipment.

What we really need to know is the limits on resorces to help find the right solution.

If budget is tight then the only way is to during the day send someone to the top of the building and play a slow frequency sweep through the sound system to find what fequencies make it up the building and cut them out.

It'll effect some songs sound but it's cheep.

 

just remember that the person who made complaints, may continue to do so if they hear "anything". Spending a lot of money might not end your problem. Also, don't forget all the heating/air conditioning duct work will carry sound, as if you were piping it directly in to your neighbors'.