I am helping a guy who is a famous guitarist from Africa with a career of 30 years in the business. I know his past repertoire, they did wonderful things back in the days. He lives in the UK now and he is recording on his own, but I am not satisfied with his recent sound. His guitars have no character. It was not like that back in the days. So I decided I try to improve things. Let me describe what the problem is:

1. This recording is one of his concerts from the 90's, he played the solo, I think it sounds great, it could be okay for me as a target sound:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VnlXwx ... sp=sharing

His guitar was a Vantage VP795 on that concert.

Now compare this to what he recorded recently. It was played by a PRS Custom, a Zoom G2 with delay ON, feeded into Logic directly through the line-in. In this style the soloists mostly play with clean sound with some delay added or not.

This is the input in Logic, untouched:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NpW6lR ... sp=sharing

This is how it was added to the song with some EQ:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VQ1gUZ ... sp=sharing

It sounds very bad to me, something like a chirping. As if it was a mixed acoustic/electric.

I asked him how they did things in the past, but I was surprised to learn that in spite of that he is a very good player, he had never been a "tech" guy, and there was another band mate who was the so called "expert" in the band, and he set up things for everyone. Everyone else could play but depended on that guy for the setup of sound. Moreover it is now untraceable how they did recordings in the studios back then. Most of those places have vanished, the engineers unknown or died. So I have no source to ask that info.

Do you have any suggestion how to get that sound that you can hear in the video I linked? Can you do that with the PRS? By the way, I had a PRS, I play this music, but I found that the most unsuitable for this sound. It exactly sounded like Santana, but that was not what I needed it for.

He had a Vintage V100 in the past, did't make too much difference, maybe was a bit better for this purpose. One day while I was sitting in his room, he played something, I just recorded it with my phone. Interestingly this recording sounds much better than those things that we record through the line-in in Logic. Has much more character, even if it is a bad recording by a phone, the guitar sound is much more pleasant:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uuFa9m ... sp=sharing

I have been asking this on other forums as well, but here I decided to post this here, too, because I know there are lots of members here who are experienced about plugins, I wonder if what I ask could be solved on the computer only?

2. I would like to show a working example but I don't know the trick here either. This is a song that was played by his bandmate in the 80's:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GMOkOi ... sp=sharing

The exact same guy can be seen here with the exact same guitar that has been his guitar since then, and the exact same sound can be heard:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cOg6NT ... sp=sharing

When I heard this I got shocked: how can it sound that good? It is okay that this is an expensive Steinberger, but I heard this guitar in other bands as well and I can tell it can sound bad, too. He is doing here something else as well that creates this great sound. But even regarding the chorus: I had several chorus pedals, had tried a lot in Logic as well, none sounded this professional, and there is that strong, concrete like sustain and presence. How can you get a sound like this, because this type of sound would be okay for me too. Unfortunately I can't ask this guy because he doesn't tell it.

 

If you record the guitar directly to the interface, it will sound dull and artificial. You want the ambience (room sound) and the amplifier sound.
The first option would be to record it through an amplifier. Put a microphone in front of the speaker and you will get the full body clean sound.
An alternative would be to just run your recording through an impulse response software....load a cabinet and mix it with the clean signal....or send the audio you have to a guitar amplifier....then mic the amp and re-record it. You will get the desired ambience/amp sound.

Oh, if you have a effects unit like Kemper, AxeFX, Helix or anything (units or pedals) that can load IR's (impulse responses), you can route the audio through it. Look for "reamping" and you will find many examples

 

As a starting point, 1300 - 1500Hz LP, 12 or 18dB slope.

 

In order, i'd try:

-A guitar with humbucker pickups in series, tone control rolled off to taste
-EQ and compression.
-Different combinations of virtual amps and speakers.
-Different picks (ideally something thicker that what you normally use)
-Different string sets (at least .10 guage), also every manufacturer has a darker or brighter sounding varieties, you can probably find demos on YT to hear what fits you best.
-A higher string action so you can really hit them without worrying too much about fret buzz.

All that might have been oddly specific, but it seems you're looking for a darker yet kinda percussive sound (taking the 90s vid as reference), and that's the way i'd go about it.

If you have any more videos, see how and where exactly he's striking the strings, closer to the bridge or the neck, that's also going to make a difference.

 

mic up a fender deluxe reverb and you are done..
His old tone is very rounded.. Booster sometimes achieves this but dont push too hard.
takes experimenting

 

Last edited: Nov 16, 2024

I've been reading the post 3 to 4 times, but I don't understand the question. At least not accurately, I guess. So you want to improve the clean guitar sound alright but from where ? the next recording session or the recorded guitar track you already have (example 2, the untouched track to Logic) ? Not sure if you're asking recording, editing/production or mixing tips here. Each needed different approach IMO.

I see people been giving mixed response here and I think they all understand it differently.

 

When playing your main genre you usually have a favorite setting and tone that you always use, and remains constant. Since he's using the same guitar maybe its the amp, then try turning off or using less reverb.

 

Use new strings!

 

Use old strings!

 

I fully agree. First intuition was to see how far I can get with the untouched recording example. Then I compared it to the processed version you attached ... holy, mine seems bright af in comparison to what was already seen as way too sizzling Then I read the rest of your post and wasn't even sure what your intention is.

Just guessing about the issue, I think the main topic is recording situation here. The easiest way to get these classical kind of bluesy guitar tones is to get it the classical way: push a tube amp into the edge-of-breakup sweet spot and let your fingers suck the tone out of it. It is probably more than just a tonal thing ... you showed the original guitar player in two really different scenarios. One time enjoying the heat of the moment in a live situation. The other time sitting at home (perhaps alone), recording some guitar tracks, not feeling really comfortable about this. It influences the way you are playing easily, unless you are really aware.

 

There's a myriad of factors, but I'd say..

Most of the Tone comes from that Zoom G2 and whatever Amp it is emulating.
It could even be an Acoustic amp simulation, hence the brightness.

Also the Cab Sim the zoom is using, or lack thereof..

PRS has Humbuckers, so it should give a Full rounded sound,
they're pretty Balanced and with maybe a Vintage touch..
(definitely not bright like using lipstick pickups on a roland jazz)


1.- Make sure you're using the right Amplifier sim on the Zoom G2,
it should have a couple of Clean E.Guitar amps, probably a Fender/Vox Clean... and the Acoustic Amp

Use the Fender or Vox Clean.
Don't use any Roland Jazz or Acoustic Guitar amp.

2.- Double check that the Cab simulation is ON when recording.
Or turn it off, and use an IR Cab of your own..


-Alternatively just de-digitalize his rig, at least for recording..
That's going old-school, with Real Amp, real Mic.. or a D.I alla RedBox Classic etc..

 

Last edited: Nov 16, 2024

Exactly, this is how I would describe his old tone. The problem is his recent tones are quite thin, as if it was halfway between recording an electric guitar with and without plugging it in.

 

Certainly, the round tone is probably a combination of natural compression from the amp and the guitar pickups. Hard to replicate with software, I suggest small steps.

 

So to summarize it:

This is his recent tone, that he created himself:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VQ1gUZ ... sp=sharing

When i write 'himself' it does not necessarily mean he is satisfied. He is not an experienced engineer, knows little about sound 'shaping' and effects. He has a basic knowledge, that makes it available for him to adjust things, but it is not enough to get what he exactly wants.

Here is his old tone that he did not create himself but there were others around him incl bandmates and engineers who set the tone and everything for him. This is that I want achieve:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VnlXwx ... sp=sharing

I have asked elsewhere, too, the usual responses are about arranging recordings in a guitar -> amp -> microphone -> daw way. That is fine, but I know people are very experienced about plugins here, so I decided to ask here if it would be possible to achieve that desired sound with plugins? Just curious...

 

He still has the chops so it's not him. To me the live one from back in the day- it sounds like it's pretty compressed. Also the highs aren't as prominent. I hear plingy scratchiness in the new one and no real blooming of the notes. I play clean primarily and this is nothing a blackface fender can't achieve with no problem at all. I think the above mention of a deluxe reverb is spot on due to its lower headroom- it's easy to get it into the sweet spot. Also, I have never played a PRS that I liked the tone. That's saying something, because I can't think of another guitar manufacturer that I can say the same about and I have played them all. But that's very subjective and personal. I like Gibsons even though by and large (re: out of box) they don't hold a candle to the PRS in terms of finish and not having the G string break angle cause issues and various other sundry problems that Gibsons are prone to. I it were me I would get a Deluxe Reverb, turn it to 5 or 6 and put a ribbon mic on it. I doubt I would add delay while tracking unless it was something like an echoplex or an old memory man where the circuitry makes it very pleasing. I would use a PCM 42 using the cranked input trick. TC 2290 and Eventide H3000's also "sound like a record" with absolutely no effort on the engineer's side.

 

This is my go-to:

If it's in standard tuning: before any processing do high pass at 80Hz + gate, this will remove any handling noise and rumble making it easier to compress and otherwise process the signal.

If the hi-passing is not done then it very easily leads to overcompressed signal as the rumbles trigger the comp.

 

One more thing while technically the guy above who stated certain truths about software vs. the real thing, I would nevertheless not let that stop me from looking into what software is capable of. I really am impressed by the newest Universal Audio offerings and Neural DSP. For clean, the Tone King Imperial Mkii that Neural DSP offers is amazing in my estimation. I can pretty much nail anything from Television's studio catalog all the way to the dirt that is on Son Volt's first record. Remarkable.

 

I bet you get "his" sound back if you use a VOX, a Fender or a Marshall combo. Or Mesa Boogie or whatever, tube or transistor doesn't matter, even a digital VOX combo will make it. The problem is the lack of amp after the guitar. Hell, try an amp sim, the free version of Tonelib is great, or - if you use REAPER - the Tukan amps will work.

 

so recording process..

If you don't have at least 1 proper character microphone (SM57 doesnt count), most of the time you'd get better sound with just direct recording the clean guitar and process it with amp sim plugins. There are tons of good plugins that can simulate the amping process to great details.

what I meant by character microphone is a good ribbon or condenser + good pre combo. 57 alone would work sometimes, but looking at how the guitar is played with FXs, you'd need 2 minimum close mics + maybe a stereo room capture. Everything needed to be captured in one go as double/triple/quad tracking isn't really possible (FX heavy guitar tone). Single mic for room should work if the amp is single speaker closed-back. It needs a lot of effort, gears and good technique. In your situation, if you have all the time and resources in the world, maybe you can take your time, learn the room and slow find the suitable gear combos for it slowly. Probably need few tries before things starting to make sense and built from there.

If you're in a hurry and a little short in resources, just direct record the guitar track. Learn the beauty of amp sim world and impulse responses. It will still take time, but it will be worth it. If that's your choice, there's tons of thread discussing about amp sim in here I think, try to start from there.

A cheaper, faster but lazy alternative would be, just DI (direct record the guitar) and pay as low as $10 and ask people at fiverr to amp/process it for you, give them the reference.

but first, you need to make a decision which route you're going to take.

 

Last edited: Nov 16, 2024

While this is absolutely not the solution I was thinking about initially, I will definately try this one, because I want to see how close you can get to copy that mentioned sound. It could be easily arranged, as the album version of that song that my friend plays in that concert video is available, I have already tested in the past: Lalal.ai can extract the solo guitar from it properly. So very likely what I will do is to have him replay the solo with his recent, pure tone, then send the stuff to that person on Fiverr and let's see how it turns out. Just as a fast test until I am experimenting. Can you recommend anyone already, by the way?